Practising Chinese with native speakers abroad

[xianhua]

I’m looking for suggestions on how to approach the following situation.

It is not unusual for me to bump into a Chinese national in my hometown. Usually, the Chinese here are either postgraduate students or working for a local firm as engineers. Now, the normal assumption is that I can’t speak Chinese and the conversation begins in English. If I then try to switch to Chinese, the other party may, in some cases, try and continue in English. It is at this stage where I need a one-liner such as “I realise your English is better than my Chinese, but please allow me to practise” (which in many, but not all cases, is true). My reasoning here is that I sometimes wonder if my attempts to speak Chinese are perceived by the other party to mean I think their English skills are poor (and so they will lose face by speaking Mandarin).

Ok, so we could ask why the other person should allow me practise Chinese when they’ve spent 10-15 years studying and passed numerous examinations, to let an English speaker address them in their mother tongue. And that’s fair enough (albeit slightly frustrating for me). However, if any others members here have encountered similar situations and found a compromise, I’d love to hear.

[skylee]

You can ask the question in English and if they agree you then switch to Chinese.

[xiaocai]

I think that it would be better if you can make a few chinese speaking friends and practice with them if it is possible. Or at least you can start the conversation in English about something else and then let the person know that you want to improve your spoken Chinese and ask the person that if he/she would mind to help. I don't think that they were offended but instead felt that it was rather random that someone just comes up and starts to speak their mother tongue all of a sudden.

[renzhe]

My reasoning here is that I sometimes wonder if my attempts to speak Chinese are perceived by the other party to mean I think their English skills are poor (and so they will lose face by speaking Mandarin).

I don't think so. An English person in England who can communicate in Mandarin is something very unusual.

Ok, so we could ask why the other person should allow me practise Chinese when they’ve spent 10-15 years studying and passed numerous examinations, to let an English speaker address them in their mother tongue.

If you were on neutral ground, I'd understand. But they are in an English-speaking environment, and use English for much of their daily interaction. They've made it, you're at the beginning of your journey.

It can be annoying for Europeans in China, where everyone wants to practice English with them. But there really aren't THAT many people in England who will pester people to practice Mandarin.

The main issue is probably that your level is not high enough yet, and that communicating in Mandarin is difficult for both you and your partner. There's nothing wrong with this. Many people are not patient enough, and many people will switch the language because it gets things accomplished quicker, not thinking about your goal (language practice).

What you need is a language partner (someone you meet for language exchange). You could also try to find/start a Chinese-speaking group at a local university and meet weekly. Or befriend a group of Chinese people and attend dinners/parties etc. where Chinese is spoken and where you can listen to the language and try a few sentences of your own. This has helped me immensely.

Generally, people will gladly speak Mandarin to you, as long as it's fluent enough not to bother the communication too badly. But getting over that gap can be tricky. Working with a specific person or small group for the purpose of language learning will probably be far more successful than approaching random people.

[chrix]

Actually, a lot of Chinese people in the US are in a mostly Chinese-speaking environment every day, especially students in an academic setting (typically in science and engineering departments). Often interaction with Americans is poor and in the rather rare event such an interaction happens, they might want to take this as an opportunity to practice their English.

But the plus side, of course is, that you get a lot of people whose English isn't that great (outside of their field of expertise), so if you've studied Chinese 10+ years, you might still get them to talk Chinese as predicted by the Law of Language Exchange *

*: both sides will automatically levitate towards the language both sides speak best...

[Scoobyqueen]

If I then try to switch to Chinese,

How about letting your opening line be (in Chinese) "we can continue in Chinese".

[xianhua]

Thanks for the replies. Just a few thoughts:

I would agree that my general skill level is part of the problem, and I do find that I quickly lose confidence if I can't understand the other person's initial words - and it's that fear that gives me reservations. As most learners find, the speed at which people speak natively can be a problem. After years of practise, I'm quite adept at speaking to Chinese people in clear, concise and straightforward English (when necessary). However, it rarely works the other way, since the other party usually has no prior experience of doing this in Chinese (unless they are a parent maybe).

I think finding a language partner is a good way. I practise the language daily with my wife. However, as mentioned on other threads here, the language is always the same, and my wife has grown accustomed to my mistakes (or literal translations word by word from English).

I have found that learning through speaking to different people is a very effective method of acquiring new vocabulary. I call the method 'situational linking' (I'm sure there is a more appropriate linguistic term out there). Basically, the new words become linked with the situation. When it's time to recall that word, my mind first pictures the person and situation and then the required word 'appears'. This is one major advantage of living in China. i.e each trip to the shops has the potential to be 'linked' with a new word. Some recent examples where the word and situation have become linked (and therefore refeshingly easy to recall):

Wife's Chinese friend enters the kitchen to discover me cooking for them - 荣幸

Standing on the step with 岳母 on our last trip to China looking out to the fields: 菜地

The situation will then fade away in time, leaving just the new word.

Thanks for listening.

[chrix]

I think it is very important that you speak with other people than your wife. Otherwise you run the risk of getting overly used to her way of speaking, and she might also (both consciously and unconsciously) adjust her way of speaking to make you understand better. This has been discussed in another thread somewhere....

[abcdefg]

Actually, a lot of Chinese people in the US are in a mostly Chinese-speaking environment every day, especially students in an academic setting (typically in science and engineering departments). Often interaction with Americans is poor and in the rather rare event such an interaction happens, they might want to take this as an opportunity to practice their English.

It took me a couple years to realize how true this is. A recent friend is a grad student here in applied science. Her main lab course just now is comprised of 6 Chinese students and one Mexican. The professor is Chinese, as is her roommate. Her main relaxation consists of watching Chinese TV on her computer in her room.

She will stumble through a Chinese conversation with me every now and then, though she is not overjoyed at the prospect. Of course it's also true that I'm pretty boring in Chinese.

[roddy]

I think if you can just get to the point of saying, in either language, that you've studied Chinese for however long for whatever reason, but you rarely get a chance to practice, then anyone even halfway inclined to help should take the hint. If not, fair enough.

Or you could be a bit sneakier . . . 'Your English is excellent . . . must be very difficult to learn English in China, with so few people to practice with . . . yes, opportunities to practice with a native speaker truly are precious . . .did you find a lot of foreigners in China insisted on speaking Chinese with you when you wanted to practice English? . . . oh, how rude . . . y'know, funny you should say that, 因为我。。。“

Edit: And maybe add in 'for a few minutes' so they don't think they're doomed to speak Chinese with you every time they see you.

Edited November 26, 2009 at 03:24 AM by roddy

[imron]

I used to hate it when people did this to me in China - especially if they started speaking to me in English without knowing if I even spoke it. Now that I'm back in Australia I pretty much never strike up a conversation in Chinese with someone unless for whatever reason they begin speaking Chinese first, because I remember how much it used to annoy me when people did it to me with English.

At the very least I think you should ask first in English if it's ok for you to practice your Chinese, rather than just switching. There's no reason you can't say “I realise your English is better than my Chinese, but please allow me to practise” in English first and that will get around the other problem of the Chinese person switching back to English because either they'll say no straight out, or they'll make the effort to help.

[atitarev]

I am not annoyed any more, I just say - 说汉语吧 or 请用汉语说话 if you say it more or less right, it usually works, if you are less confident, you can specifically request in English or Chinese.

[msittig]

I'm with Imron on this one. Find a language partner; don't insist that Chinese speak Mandarin with you simply because they can. You don't want to turn into a...

[xiaocai]

I'm with Imron on this one. Find a language partner; don't insist that Chinese speak Mandarin with you simply because they can. You don't want to turn into a...

Well I really sympathise with all his predicaments in China and sincerely hope that he/she is not being sexually assaulted anymore by every single mainland Chinese people (all are language rapists apparently).

But after reading the replies I just found that the only person with intent to commit sexual assault was the OP him/herself as he/she expressed clearly that "BN: you’re a 白痴. 肏你妈."

[xianhua]

I'm with Imron on this one. Find a language partner; don't insist that Chinese speak Mandarin with you simply because they can. You don't want to turn into a...

I had a look at that site. I feel there is a difference between actively finding Chinese people simply to practise the language and being introduced to a person properly through a friend or relative. The latter is the position I find myself in more often than not.

[atitarev]

Guys, don't get me wrong, if the last comments were addressed to me! I am not such a bastard, let alone language rapist, LOL. Day before yesterday, a Chinese guys saw me reading Chinese stories on the train and show me his approval. He spoke English to me, I answered in Chinese. After a few phrases I suggested to speak to me and he agreed. It was only a short conversation, which attracted a lot of attention from fellow passengers. This guy speaks English every day in Australia, he was obviously glad to be able to help and speak a lit bit of Chinese, no more than 10 minute. Also, if you don't ask for practice, you may not get it...

In a longer situations we agree in advance, which language we speak, this is the way it's done in some meetups here in Melbourne - 15 minutes English, 15 minutes Chinese, quite fair. Of course, many people switch to English more than we should because it's easy! I value opportunities to speak a foreign language and I am not shy to ask if I need it.

[imron]

@msittig, haha I was thinking of posting a link to that very article I wish TalkTalkChina had kept their archives online without needing to go through the wayback machine.

Anyway, wanting to practice Chinese with people doesn't necessarily make you a language rapist. Rather it's the way you go about it. If you're accosting random people and expecting them to speak to you in the language you are learning, don't be surprised when they are less than helpful about giving you free speaking practice.

It only takes a few seconds to ask someone if they would mind helping you practice. It's only polite to ask first, and if they don't want to, leave it at that. Other times, it's obvious from the context what language is appropriate e.g. you're hanging out with Chinese friends and they're all speaking Chinese together so it's normal to speak in Chinese too, or you've specifically arranged a language exchange, or someone comes up to you after seeing you reading a Chinese book on the train etc.

If you're butting in to people's conversations because you overhear them speaking Chinese and want to join in, or if you insist on speaking Chinese with someone outside of China just because it's their native language and you want the practice (even though they've indicated they'd prefer to speak in English), then that's just impolite (inside of China it's a different matter entirely however).

There are plenty of ways to practice Chinese with people without being a language rapist. General rule of thumb - speak the native language of the country you are in unless it's clear that the other person is willing to speak to you in their language.

[Meng Lelan]

My advice to you xianhua is you are married to someone who speaks Chinese and has relatives and friends who speak Chinese. You are going to have to be very honest with all of them and tell them you want them to be equally honest with you when it comes to assessing and correcting you and keeping you on the Chinese track. Just bumping into any Zhou-Blow on the street and hoping this will become nice language practice is not going to fly. They have a life of their own and so do you. All they have is five minutes of chat and they go back to their jobs/classes/family/life in general.

By the way language exchange for me has never worked one second in my life, but then again a lot of things about me are very different from others, maybe that's why language exchange never worked, but you need to first read through language-exchange related threads in here before you decide to do this.

[xianhua]

Zhou-Blow

Just out of curiosity, is Zhou-Blow the equivalent of 'Joe Bloggs' or 'A.N Other' in English? Is it perhaps close to 老百姓?

[anonymoose]

Just out of curiosity, is Zhou-Blow the equivalent of 'Joe Bloggs' or 'A.N Other' in English?

I think it's just another way of saying 汤姆、迪克和哈利