请教各位两个句子 English translation of two sentences

[Kenny同志]

请教大家

What is the proper English translation of the following two sentences?

本书成书之前数易其稿.

这个学期我们换了三位数学老师.

Thanks in advance.

[anonymoose]

I'll try.

本书成书之前数易其稿.

The manuscript is revised many times before being made into a book.

这个学期我们换了三位数学老师.

We've had three different maths teachers this term.

[Altair]

Quote:

本书成书之前数易其稿.

The manuscript is revised many times before being made into a book.

I realize that sometimes free, non-literal translations are often best, but

I am interested in really small nuances and so have few questions.

Does 本书 really imply "the manuscript" or "a manuscript"? I know that in Cantonese, measure words can be used to indicate definiteness, but am now wondering if this applies to Mandarin or Classical Chinese as well.

Can 成书 literally mean "being made into a book," or must it mean "being published"?

If 成书 literally means "to be published," does it have to involve printing of some sort, or could it apply to the hand copying of ancient times? In other words, does it mean simply getting a book into final form, or does it imply submitting it to a commercial publisher who prepares it for mass distribution?

Depending on the answers to my questions, I might translate the Chinese as:

"The drafts have to be changed many times, before a book can indeed become a book."

[chrix]

"本" implies that it is given, in the sense of "the book in question"

Can 成书 literally mean "being made into a book," or must it mean "being published"?

depending on the context?

[Kenny同志]

成书, in my way of thinking, is to be in its final form

"本" implies that it is given, in the sense of "the book in question"

Exactly!

Anyone else shed some light on the translation of the second sentence?

[Altair]

"本" implies that it is given, in the sense of "the book in question"

Thanks for your replies. I am familiar with this meaning of 本, but if this is a proverb, how can there be anything "in question"? Or is the meaning something like: "For a given book to become a book"?

Quote:

这个学期我们换了三位数学老师.

We've had three different maths teachers this term.

I lke anonymoose's translation, except that I think in standard American English you have to say "math teachers." Unlike the full word "mathematics," we never use the word "maths" in the plural, regardless of context. I have heard other dialect speakers, however, talk about learning "maths," and so perhaps they would feel the need to say "maths teachers."

I think I would also prefer to put this in the sentence in the simple past tense, rather than the present perfect, and so would say:

"We had three different math teachers this term."

If you say: "We've had," it leaves things open in the same way that saying 这个学期我们换了三位数学老师了 does.

[chrix]

Thanks for your replies. I am familiar with this meaning of 本, but if this is a proverb, how can there be anything "in question"? Or is the meaning something like: "For a given book to become a book"?

Where does the OP say that this is a proverb?

[chrix]

Anyone else shed some light on the translation of the second sentence?

You could also say something along the lines of "We've changed teachers three times", but I think anonymoose's translation sounds better...

[trien27]

本书成书之前数易其稿 is incorrect, but could be understood, as "The book went over many drafts before being published."

本书 = The book itself.

成书之前 = before becoming a book / before being published.

数 = number [noun] ; to count [verb]

易 = easy; change [i think this word is incorrectly put in]

其稿 = his / her / its drafts.

本书成书之前稿已改良过无数次 or 本书成书之前已改过好几编.

What manuscript? There's no manuscripts or revisions being mentioned.

这个学期我们换了三位数学老师. = We've had three different math teachers this semester.

[chrix]

is incorrect

you're aware that the OP is a native speaker of Mandarin Chinese?

[trien27]

you're aware that the OP is a native speaker of Mandarin Chinese?

really? Where did you FIND that? Being in Hainan or anywhere in China doesn't mean you're necessarily a native! Like so many of you who aren't even Chinese?! Even natives could still be wrong at times.

[chrix]

you've been on this forum so long, and yet you haven't bothered to find out more about your fellow posters... That's the last thing I'm gonna say on this subject...

[anonymoose]

I lke anonymoose's translation, except that I think in standard American English you have to say "math teachers."

But I'm not American, and I don't speak standard American English.

I have heard other dialect speakers, however, talk about learning "maths,"

So British English is a dialect of American English now, is it?

这个学期我们换了三位数学老师. = We've had three different math teachers this semester.

Incidentally, in British English we rarely say "semester" either.

[Kenny同志]

Thanks all for your responses. Inspired by all the input, I translate the sentences as follows.

本书成书之前数易其稿。

The manuscript had been revised many times before it was finalised.

这个学期我们换了三位数学老师.

We’ve had three maths teachers this term.

I’ve dropped “different”, because by saying “three maths teachers”, we take for granted that they are not the same person.

originally posted by trien27

本书成书之前数易其稿 is incorrect

Well, yes, native speakers do make mistakes, but in this case, you can rest assured it is correct. 数易其稿 is kind of set phrase. You may as well check this:

http://www.baidu.com/s?bs=%CA%FD%D2%D7%C6%E4%B8%E5%CA%C7%CA%B2%C3%B4%D2%E2%CB%BC&f=8&wd=%CA%FD%D2%D7%C6%E4%B8%E5

Some 205,000 results.

Any suggestions?

[anonymoose]

这个学期我们换了三位数学老师.

We’ve had three maths teachers this term.

I’ve dropped “different”, because by saying “three maths teachers”, we take for granted that they are not the same person.

If you just say "We’ve had three maths teachers this term", it sounds like a statement of fact, without any further implication. Of course the three teachers are understood to be different people, but by including "different" in the sentence, it emphasises the changing of the teachers, the implication being that you should have had only one teacher, and having three is too many. As usual, of course, the exact interpretation would depend on the context, though.

[Kenny同志]

Thanks for your comment, Anonymoose, that makes some sense, but is there any other way to state the same meaning?

[chrix]

I think, kenny, it will be hard without any further context...

[Kenny同志]

I am sorry. I should have done it earlier. The whole text is

高三的时候，我们换了三位数学老师，其中马晓红老师给我的印象最深。

[anonymoose]

The whole text is

高三的时候，我们换了三位数学老师，其中马晓红老师给我的印象最深。

Well, this is different from your original sentence. This one I'd translate as:

We had three maths teachers in the senior 3rd year, Ma Xiaohong leaving me with the deepest impression.

However, in English, we don't talk about 印象 as much as in Chinese. I think in English it would be more natural to say something like:

We had three maths teachers in the senior 3rd year. I liked Ma Xiaohong the most.

Of course you might need to change the sentence depending specifically on what kind of 印象 you were talking about, but I assume you meant a positive 印象.

[Altair]

Quote:

I lke anonymoose's translation, except that I think in standard American English you have to say "math teachers."

But I'm not American, and I don't speak standard American English.

Sorry for the offense, my point was not that you were wrong or that you were an American, but that this is one of those few sentences where you have to choose between different regional usages depending on your audience. "Maths teachers" looks like a typo in the U.S. or like the usage of someone who would say: "three-feet ladder" or "recipes book." I don't think the average American is at all aware of the usage of phrases like "maths books." Not knowing what audience Kenny2006woo had in mind, I wanted to point out that the choice was significant.

Quote:

I have heard other dialect speakers, however, talk about learning "maths,"

So British English is a dialect of American English now, is it?

Sorry again for the offense. I was not using "dialect" in a pejorative sense, but in a linguistic sense. To me, "American" English and "British" English are simply two of many dialects of English. In fact, the only other people I have heard use the expression "maths" were speakers of standard dialects that were neither American nor British.

Although it usually makes little difference to anyone what standard you pick, there are a few usages that are quite jarring across dialects. I think that advanced learners of English would want to know about these.

For instance, I grew up knowing "Randy" as a quite unremarkable nickname and only later learned the unfortunate impression this could have on speakers of British English, to whom it apparently immediately connotes "horny." Likewise, I recently received a panicked phone call from someone who heard that a time-sensitive document would be revised by a colleague. In American English, "revise" means to "make changes" or to "rewrite." I calmed him down by explaining that in the dialect of the original speaker, "revise" meant merely "review" and that there was no delay implied. "Tabling a mortion" is another commonly cited example of something that has almost opposite meanings across the "pond."