Desperate to live/work in China !!

[Ren_st]

So I will be graduating this May (2010) and instead of working full time I want to do something abroad first. It can either be for the summer, or the entire year.

However, all the programs I have looked into are for students. Why are all the good programs only for students?!? Which got me to thinking "Why not just teach in China?"

I am of Cantonese background and will have taken about a year of formal Mandarin Chinese at my university. Are there any good structure programs out there that I should look into?

At the moment, the CIEE program looks extremely appealing, but it is ridiculously expensive (almost $2000!). However, I have heard good things about it and it is reputable. I want to apply through a program so that I wont have to look for my own housing and universities, etc.

I dont have formal english teaching experience. However, I have been a math tutor duringthe summer and during the semester. I will be graduating with both a b.s. and masters in math, so I am not sure if that will help with teaching english in China.

I am open to pretty much anything right now, as long as it does not cost too much money. I have been abroad before for a summer research program and loved it. I want to do it again after graduation through a program. Any suggestions?

[kdavid]

If you're looking to teach English in China, and you're on a budget, then this program is by far your best option. We allow you to pay your TESOL tuition back over six months as opposed to all at once. We also offer more benefits than any other program (e.g. free meals, accommodation, transportation, Mandarin lessons, etc.).

The only issue of concern is that you mentioned you're of Cantonese decent. This is going to be an obstacle for you as many schools in China want a foreign face teaching their classes. As you may know, the Chinese are very skeptical of each other, and especially of business, and many schools, particularly private schools, are going to assume that you're not a real native speaker.

This doesn't mean that you won't be able to find employment in China. There are plenty of ABCs teaching here. However, you're not going to have the same options as someone who fits the stereotypical mold that the Chinese want. The earlier you can accept this, and that you're going to deal with a certain degree of discrimination, the better your chances of success and enjoying your time here in China.

Good luck!

[jobin]

no special need for TESOL or other 'training ' courses or diploma in order to teach english in china. at my public univ any american with BS and now, perhaps, some life experience like working for half year, can get a pretty sweet job. the degree only satisfies the provincial govt regulations. we have some ABC teachers, many hardly over 23 years, little experience, no special teaching credentials or teaching experience. situations in china highly variable according to location. start shopping around. use can find agents in usa to help you get a job in china at public univ. pay the agent a small fee, they do the legwork.

[Hero Doug]

I've done teaching work in China and used an agency to find a couple of positions.

If you'd like send me a P.M and I'll pass along the details of a couple agencies. You shouldn't pay any fees, the school should pay them.

[knadolny]

The only issue of concern is that you mentioned you're of Cantonese decent.

If I were you I would just pack up and head to China. You can worry about the visa situation later. You'll find the most opportunities just living there and networking with people. A friend of mine lives in Hong Kong and he was telling me about the frustration a friend of his was having find a job teaching English in mainland China. His friend is Cantonese like yourself. He basically got tired of looking for a job and found students on his own. If you have the initiative I don't think you'll have a problem and just be open. I'm living in Japan and I think the best way for me to find students here would be to hand out tissues with my contact information. But then I found an engineering job instead so I scrapped the idea.

[whereishunter]

You shouldn't been paying any fees to come to China to teach. There are plenty of places online to find jobs and as Hero Doug said the school should be paying the recruitment fees.

Hey kdavid

I have seen that you have recommended Will-Excel TESOL School a couple of times.

Recommending a School is fine and it looks like a great option for many first time teachers in China. But not saying that you are involved in the management and/or financially in such school is not on.

If you are going to give advice to anyone, they are also entitled to know if you have anything to gain in giving such advice.

[isela]

However, you're not going to have the same options as someone who fits the stereotypical mold that the Chinese want. The earlier you can accept this, and that you're going to deal with a certain degree of discrimination, the better your chances of success and enjoying your time here in China.

I feel bad about this. But this is the fact. I think after a while people's mindset will change.

[knadolny]

You shouldn't been paying any fees to come to China to teach. There are plenty of places online to find jobs and as Hero Doug said the school should be paying the recruitment fees.

I agree. You are working and therefore should be paid. China might not yet be uber rich but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get paid for working.

Edited December 5, 2009 at 09:11 AM by knadolny
adding info

[valikor]

For a lot teaching gigs here, I don't think you need any qualifications besides being white.

whereishunter--Good call on kdavid, but in his defense, he did say "We allow you to... We offer. . ." etc. Certainly a stretch to say "by far your best option".. .

Last week I took a 2 day teaching job, to fill in for someone. Five minutes after arriving, I was offered a full time job at a different school, before anyone had even seen me teach, seen a resume, asked if I had a degree, or anything else.

(I''d guess teaching at a university would be different.)

[imron]

I don't think it's any big secret that kdavid runs Will Excel TESOL, and most regular posters will probably be aware of this already. That being said, kdavid perhaps in the future if you make sure to include a line or two explicitly mentioning this whenever you post about your school (rather than just saying "we allow you to, we offer etc") then it will help avoid confusion among newer members.

[anonymoose]

If your degree is in maths, then you could consider teaching maths (in English). In Shanghai there are several international schools with foreign teachers. I'm not so familiar with other cities, but I know such schools also exist in Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Wuxi, Suzhou, Beijing and no doubt, other schools also. Pay is likely to be better than teaching English, although it does vary considerably from school to school.

[kdavid]

Hey kdavid

I have seen that you have recommended Will-Excel TESOL School a couple of times.

Recommending a School is fine and it looks like a great option for many first time teachers in China. But not saying that you are involved in the management and/or financially in such school is not on.

If you are going to give advice to anyone, they are also entitled to know if you have anything to gain in giving such advice.

From my initial post:

We allow you to pay your TESOL tuition back over six months as opposed to all at once. We also offer more benefits than any other program (e.g. free meals, accommodation, transportation, Mandarin lessons, etc.).

That being said, kdavid perhaps in the future if you make sure to include a line or two explicitly mentioning this whenever you post about your school (rather than just saying "we allow you to, we offer etc") then it will help avoid confusion among newer members.

Perhaps it wasn't clear enough, so fair enough, and good idea.

As for not needing a TESOL, what about not needing training? I'd think that anyone serious about bettering their students' education would be serious about ensuring that they get quality training so that they can become the best teacher possible. Genius needs to be cultivated in order to reach its utmost potential.

Being a good teacher is not as easy as just "showing up" and going through the motions. There is a lot more involved in teaching than just being able to speak English.

Sure, many schools here will take you without formal training, but a lot of schools here are also just looking for a warm body to put butts in seats. The best positions available out there will require their teachers to have participated in some formal training.

[Lugubert]

Excuse the quote mining, but I reacted to the OP's

just teaching

(My emphasis.)

As for not needing a TESOL' date=' what about not needing training? I'd think that anyone serious about bettering their students' education would be serious about ensuring that they get quality training so that they can become the best teacher possible. Genius needs to be cultivated in order to reach its utmost potential.

Being a good teacher is not as easy as just "showing up" and going through the motions. There is a lot more involved in teaching than just being able to speak English.[/quote']

^^^^This.

There is also another, often overlooked, aspect. Now and then, I see the comment on discussion boards that a good help in spotting if posters writing in English have another language as their first one is to look for grammar errors. Are errors absent, it might mean that the submitter is a foreigner who has studied grammar.

On the other hand, us furriners will often produce unidiomatic sentences and expressions that give us away. In a conversation with a British former school headmistress, I used "half year". She told me that "We say six months", while appreciating my "error" as being handy and useful.

So, it's for the school to decide if they want to have letter writing skills, which might be useful for e.g. producing neat and uncontroversial Internet ads, or conversation aptitude taught.

[Ren_st]

Thanks for the helpful replies guys!

I am thinking...

Is it possible for me to teach English or math and study(Chinese) at the same university? For their math courses, I am assuming that instruction and everything else is in Chinese. I also want to apply as a teaching assistant of some sort which might be better for me.

I did grow up here in the US and yes, I am of Chinese descent. I will take all your advices into consideration.

Also,

should I apply for the CSC scholarship instead? Will it "discriminate" against me being of Chinese descent ie. lower my chances of getting it? My main goal is to stay in China for a year and take one more year of Chinese there. If I can find a part time job there, then great, but if not I still get to learn Chinese and live in China for a year. ..

How competitive is CSC scholarship ?

Edited December 5, 2009 at 10:37 PM by imron

[imron]

In a conversation with a British former school headmistress, I used "half year". She told me that "We say six months",

I think "half year" is perfectly normal usage.

[Hero Doug]

If your degree is in maths, then you could consider teaching maths (in English). In Shanghai there are several international schools with foreign teachers. I'm not so familiar with other cities, but I know such schools also exist in Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Wuxi, Suzhou, Beijing and no doubt, other schools also. Pay is likely to be better than teaching English, although it does vary considerably from school to school.

I have met two people who have taught their specialty at universities in China; one taught math, the other computer science. Both were paid a very respectable salary (or at least claimed they were paid), 20,000+ RMB a month.

Once you're in China, you may want to think about looking into teaching math at a decent university. Once you have some experience under your belt it should be a very real possibility.

[zhouhaochen]

dont worry, stuff sorts itself out here surprisingly fast. But it depends how adventurous you are or if you like to have things planned for you.

If you are willing to do some planning work yourself, just coming here, book a hostel for a week and sorting things (ppl on this forum are actually pretty helpful if you need anything) out is probably the best option. But if you feel a bit uncertain about coming to China and having nothing planned, maybe do a teaching contract beforehand. But I wouldnt sign up for too long, they usually use the fact that you dont know what one can earn doing teaching English here (in Beijing around 150RMB/h is pretty standard).