Calif Posted December 5, 2009 at 02:14 AM Report Posted December 5, 2009 at 02:14 AM I was looking in a couple of online dictionaries and i saw that zi (purple) is listed as having 11 strokes, but I count 12... am I doing something wrong? I went to yellowbridge online dictionary and used their "animated character" feature and I swear i see 12 strokes... what gives? Quote
Hofmann Posted December 5, 2009 at 02:20 AM Report Posted December 5, 2009 at 02:20 AM Do the dictionaries that say it has 11 strokes get their data from CEDICT? Quote
querido Posted December 5, 2009 at 04:00 AM Report Posted December 5, 2009 at 04:00 AM Wenlin says 12. Quote
jbradfor Posted December 5, 2009 at 04:19 AM Report Posted December 5, 2009 at 04:19 AM Funny you should notice that. I sent MGDB a note about that a bit over a year ago. They wrote back to to effect that the character stroke information is NOT in CEDict, but rather they get it from Unihan, and they have no way to correct it. If anyone knows how to get ahold of Unihan for corrections, please post. [Oh, I just checked the URL provided me, and it's no longer valid.] Quote
doraemon Posted December 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM Report Posted December 5, 2009 at 10:58 AM 12. Positive. Quote
Hofmann Posted December 5, 2009 at 12:41 PM Report Posted December 5, 2009 at 12:41 PM Oh hello. Somehow I thought Unihan got its stroke count data from CEDICT. Quote
Lugubert Posted December 5, 2009 at 01:44 PM Report Posted December 5, 2009 at 01:44 PM Even Nelson's Japanese-English dictionary counts 6+6. Quote
Calif Posted December 5, 2009 at 07:00 PM Author Report Posted December 5, 2009 at 07:00 PM Thanks for the replies. I wrote the administrator of the online dictionary I found the error in to correct them. Looking at the other online dictionaries - even the putonghua language wikitonary (!) that have the same error, It doesn't look good that so many sources just blindly add material to their resources without checking it, but I suppose that since they are just providing a free online service, I mustn't be too picky. Just careful. Baidu got it right at least, and I actually like their setup, so I will be using them from now on. http://dict.baidu.com/s?wd=%D7%CF&f=3 Quote
trien27 Posted December 25, 2009 at 09:35 PM Report Posted December 25, 2009 at 09:35 PM 紫, zi, meaning "purple": Left side on top, 止 = 4 strokes, right side on top, 匕 = 2 strokes, bottom character, 糸 = 6 strokes. 4+2+6 = 6+6 = 4+8 = 12 strokes total. If they say 11, then it's because: the character on top left is counted as three characters: third & fourth strokes are counted as one, instead of two strokes, due to having a habit of writing in xingshu or caoshu. Quote
imron Posted December 25, 2009 at 11:27 PM Report Posted December 25, 2009 at 11:27 PM Errors can be reported here. Quote
Hofmann Posted December 25, 2009 at 11:57 PM Report Posted December 25, 2009 at 11:57 PM If they say 11, then it's because: the character on top left is counted as three characters: third & fourth strokes are counted as one, instead of two strokes, due to having a habit of writing in xingshu or caoshu. Somebody's bad habit. FYI, the 此 on top in 行書 has 4 strokes. In most 楷書 it's 4 or 5. However, the orthodox 楷書 variant still has 6. Quote
jbradfor Posted December 26, 2009 at 08:14 PM Report Posted December 26, 2009 at 08:14 PM Errors can be reported here. Reported.... Quote
anwenjie Posted December 27, 2009 at 09:16 AM Report Posted December 27, 2009 at 09:16 AM How about the character 塊? 12 or 13 strokes? Wenlin says 12, my character book says 13 and so does mdbg. Quote
trien27 Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:35 PM Report Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:35 PM If they say 11, then it's because: the character on top left is counted as three characters: third & fourth strokes are counted as one, instead of two strokes, due to having a habit of writing in xingshu or caoshu. Sorry, I meant "the character on top left is counted as three strokes". Quote
trien27 Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:40 PM Report Posted December 27, 2009 at 04:40 PM In Kaishu = 13 strokes, in Xingshu or Caoshu, then 12 strokes. Quote
Hofmann Posted December 28, 2009 at 01:27 AM Report Posted December 28, 2009 at 01:27 AM (edited) in Xingshu or Caoshu, then 12 strokes. I'm not in a really...great mood right now, so uhh...how do I say this nicely? Let's say I make a poll, m'kay? And let's say in that poll, I posted this picture (It says 紫, in case you can't read 草書, but you can read 草書, right? because you were talking about it), and then the poll was asking how many strokes it has, m'kay? What do you think people will choose? 2? 3? 12? 24? It's gonna be all over the place. Why? It's difficult or impossible to count strokes in 草書. Even if one could, it would vary depending on one's criterion and whose writing one is looking at. That's one problem, m'kay? Another thing is...how many strokes does 紫 have in 行書 and 草書? 12? Who writes 12 strokes? Anyone who knows what they're doing, or just some 庶民? What's a stroke to you? (Oh! I just caught myself writing a series of rhetorical questions. I hate it when people do that. Sorry. You don't have to answer them.) Using my criterion for a stroke, in 行書 it has 9, 10, or 11 strokes depending on whose handwriting I use. 9 or 10 most of the time. 11, is really pushing it. 12 is practically impossible. So, what's my point here? Let's use another analogy. Let's say I didn't know how to spell the word "misinformation," m'kay? And let's say I told someone that it has 14 letters. Whew! Good for me. I got it right, but it was pretty dangerous because I didn't know how to spell it. But what if I told them that it has 20 letters? Now that's a problem, m'kay? That's because the person who needed to know how many letters "misinformation" has probably doesn't know how to spell it. I just misinformed them! That's a huge no-no , m'kay? So, I might be mistaken, but I don't think you know how to write 紫 in 行書 and 草書. That's not a problem itself, but you told someone how many strokes it has. That really blows, m'kay? In Kaishu = 13 strokes Now that's interesting. That would be like in the Tang Dynasty where people lifted up their brushes at corners, so writing 紫, one might use 13 strokes. However, the rest of the characters in Unicode don't count strokes that way. I don't think this should be an exception. Oh, hello. I just realized you were talking about 塊, but the same principle applies. Main points: (1) It's difficult or impossible to count strokes in 草書. (2) Don't misinform people. Edited December 28, 2009 at 02:03 AM by Hofmann Quote
Hofmann Posted December 28, 2009 at 01:53 AM Report Posted December 28, 2009 at 01:53 AM (edited) How about the character 塊? 12 or 13 strokes? Wenlin says 12, my character book says 13 and so does mdbg. 13 in the orthodox variant and traditional standards, 12 in Simplified Chinese-ized Traditional Chinese...if ya know what I mean. Extra credit: in 行書, it's 10 or 11. Never 12. Can't count 草書 strokes Edited December 28, 2009 at 02:09 AM by Hofmann Quote
vampire Posted December 28, 2009 at 02:48 AM Report Posted December 28, 2009 at 02:48 AM How about the character 塊? 12 or 13 strokes? Wenlin says 12, my character book says 13 and so does mdbg. that depands on how one writes the big 丿in the character 鬼, a big 丿or a 丨+ a samller 丿, some write 塊 as 土丿田儿厶(13 strokes) and some as 土白儿厶(12 strokes), both are aceptable I think. Quote
jbradfor Posted January 1, 2010 at 07:38 PM Report Posted January 1, 2010 at 07:38 PM FWIW: submitted correction to unicode.org (as per imron's link), just got email back saying they agree it was in error and it has been fixed. Quote
imron Posted January 1, 2010 at 10:07 PM Report Posted January 1, 2010 at 10:07 PM Hurrah, well done It's nice to know they respond to issues in a reasonably small timeframe. Quote
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