Use of 得 in verb complements

[stelingo]

In my textbook both the following sentences appear.

你看完了吗? Have you read(it)?

你看得完吗? Are you able to finish reading it? (?)

But there is no proper explanation of how they differ in meaning nor why 得 is used in the second one. Could someone help me out?

[HashiriKata]

1. First you should think of 看完 as comprising of two things: an action 看 (read) and the result 完 (finish) (= 完 comes as a result of 看). You'll have many combinations like this in Chinese, and the 2nd element of the combi is called "resultative complement", because it tells you about the result.

(In your sentence, 你看完了吗 is translated as "Have you read(it)?", which implies "Have you finished reading it", as in my explanation.)

2.With the above type of combinations as the basis, you now have 看得完 (with 得 in the middle). Now try to think of 得 in this type of combinations as meaning "can / be able to", so the new combi will mean something like "can finish reading". 得完 in this combination is called "potential complement", because this complement expresses the potential/ possibility.

[dfunkyfresh]

Yup, just to follow up a bit:

The opposite of 看得完 is 看不完

Some other examples:

跟得上 = keep up (with) eg 你跟得上吗，“can you keep up (with me)?"

跟不上 = can't keep up with, could not keep up with

看不懂

看得懂

听得懂

听不懂

and lots more!

[keitha]

I have a question also. =)

my teachers sentence is like this:

在楼上看中国报的夫妇得比你更快。

But the impression I get from my grammar books is that I should write like this: 在楼上看中国报的夫妇比你得更快

Edited December 27, 2009 at 01:49 AM by keitha

[Kenny同志]

The sentence you give is vague. I don't know what the speaker is getting at.

What the couple are doing faster than you? They run faster than you or they eat faster than you? In a word, the sentence is not valid. Additionally, you can do just fine without 在 in the sentence.

[Kenny同志]

And what is 中国报 exactly? Is it 中文报 or anything else?

[keitha]

it is a strange sentence in swedish also (thats the original sentence to translate). She made up the sentence just to make us practice 得。

But the meaning is 看中文报 (read chinese newspapers) and they are reading it faster than you.

Sorry for the confusion I did type 国 instead of 文。

[Kenny同志]

I guess the speaker might have wanted to say: 楼上的吴先生、吴太太（assume the husband's surname is 吴）看中文报纸比你快。

夫妇 sounds quite formal to me and often unnatural in colloquial Chinese.

Instead of 夫妇，we say 两口子、小两口、or 某某先生太太.

PS： 两口子 is referred to a couple you're acquainted with.

小两口 is used to address a young couple you're acquainted with.

某某先生太太 is referred to a respectable couple whom you are not so acquainted with.

Edited December 27, 2009 at 03:48 AM by kenny2006woo

[keitha]

we are using some quite old material (Colloquial chinese from 1982) so the words we are using might be out of date like 夫妇 (married couple).

[Kenny同志]

Is your teacher a Chinese, if so, I don't know what to say. How could a native Chinese speaker give such a terrible sentence? Big shame on some Chinese!

PS: 夫妇 is simply formal, not an outdated word. It is indeed used in colloquial Chinese but unnatural in this case.

[HashiriKata]

From what is given (在楼上看中国报的夫妇得比你更快。) , I assume the original sentence may be something like this:

楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。

(The couple upstairs shoud read Chinese newspapers faster than you.)

If my assumption is correct, then the 得 is not the same one in this thread. The 得 in this sentence should read "dei3" and mean "should".

[Guoke]

Or better:

楼上的夫妇看中文报比你快。

得 doesn't fit in anywhere in this sentence.

Or

楼上的夫妇看中文报看得比你快。

if you insist on using 得

and 得 is pronounced de instead of dei

[Kenny同志]

楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。

If you insist on using “得” then the sentence should be worded this way:

楼上的夫妇看中文报纸看得比你快。

If my assumption is correct, then the 得 is not the same one in this thread. The 得 in this sentence should read "dei3" and mean "should".

I am afraid your assumption is not correct here. 得 has a second tone here.

PS: "夫妇“ sounds awkward here. Better use another word instead.

[HashiriKata]

It's more helpful to keep close to what is given. Besides, there's a clear difference in meaning between "得比你更快" and "比你快", and not a matter of one being better than the other.

Edit: kenny2006woo, the above reply is to Gouke's post, as I didn't see yours. But your suggested sentence is another vesion, which is not the same as the one I suggested. So your 得 is not the same one as in my sentence.

[Guoke]

哈哈.... Kenny, what a coincidence! We almost said the same thing at the same time. I saw your new thread after I edited the second part.

In my opinion, if you don't know the couple well, it is quite all right to call them 夫妇。

It only sounds weird to call them 夫妇 when you know them well.

Am I right?

[Kenny同志]

楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。

We don't say like that. I have to say it is wrong.

[Kenny同志]

It only sounds weird to call them 夫妇 when you know them well.

Am I right?

You're right.Tthe usage is justified in my hometown dialect, but not in Mandarin.

[Guoke]

Yes, HashiriKata, I see your point.

"楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。" and "楼上的夫妇看中文报比你快。" have different meanings.

It's just that it seems a little weird to say "楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。"

[HashiriKata]

@ kenny2006woo: Even if you don't say it, that doesn't mean it definitely doesn't exist, especially when it comes to variations in Chinese

Edit (again!): Just see your post, Gouke!

It's just that it seems a little weird to say "楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。"

You're right, but it should be fine in the right context (and for it to be ok, 得 here is intended as "dei3").

[Kenny同志]

Please let me know if I make any mistake in English. And to return your favour, I will let you know if you make any mistake in Chinese.

@ Hashirikata

楼上的夫妇看中文报得比你更快。"

I have to say it is wrong. Maybe you can check it with your Chinese friends.