bad behavior of two foreign students at Hainan University

[Kenny同志]

A schoolmate’s post : That day, when I finished my class and came out the NO. 4 Teaching Building I saw two white guys riding a motorbike on the campus’ road. As the class was just over, there were students everywhere along the road. It would have been OK if the two have had pressed the horn to make their way, but they deliberately choose not to do so, instead they put the gear to neutral position and stepped on the gas. The motorbike began to roar like a jet plane in no time and students on the road was so thunderstruck that they quickly scattered from the road, everyone in panic. Seeing so many people in such a awkward state of disorder they smiled smugly. I couldn’t stand it at that moment. Angered by their disrespect, I shouted at them: “ F**k, shit”.

This is another one:

I took part in this year’s 50m freestyle swimming competition. I was assigned to the the Fourth Team and the seventh swimming lane. The one before me was a foreign student, who was assigned to the Third Team and the same lane. You all must have seen him before. He was the white guy wearing long braided fair hair. According to the rule, anyone who beats the gun will be ordered off. That day, in the Third Team, quite a number of competitors beat the gun following the one who had taken the lead. And he was among them, but he managed to rise to his feet in a second and escaped the chief referee’s eyes. When the chief was inviting the violators off that boy pretended nothing had happened and appeared on the springboard again, trying to muddle through. Unfortunately, all these were caught by the deputy referee and the deputy asked him to step off the board, however, he insisted on not stepping down and talked on and on trying to reason with the deputy, without success. A few minutes after he went off, he returned with a crowd of his white fellows, again trying to reason with the referee but ended up with no result. When the laowais were laughing, passing by the natatorium I heard some harsh words ----- “stupid China!”

Edited December 29, 2009 at 05:49 AM by kenny2006woo

[wushijiao]

I used to be somewhat in charge of "policing" college kids bad and illegal behavior. The school should deal with them strictly, as they should for all other traffic/safety violators.

Although, it is odd how we as humans always tend to differentiate other people's bad behavior from ourselves by putting them into groups that differentiate them from ourselves. For example, if you live abroad, when you see something crazy/illegal happening, it's not uncommon to think, "look at the X nationality, I can't believe they're all doing this!". On the other hand, if you were from country X, you'd probably say, "I can't believe these young people/gangster-looking people/ or people from X province place...etc. I can't believe they're all doing this!"

[anwenjie]

I think we should always be careful doing negative stereotyping. Sure I've met obnoxious 'foreigners' in China. But we also have plenty of obnoxious 'native' and 'foreign' people in Denmark However, some of the most knowledgeable and friendly people I've met happens to foreign nationals who lives in China. People who chose to live there because they are so interested in China, its culture and its people.

Every country has their fair share of rotten apples. I hope they won't become representatives for a whole culture.

[imron]

Angered by their disrespect, I shouted at them: “ F**k, shit”.

Swearing like this won't acheive anything, firstly because if you (or in this case your classmate) swear incorrectly in a foreign language it just makes you look stupid in the eyes of the people you are swearing at (if you're going to swear in a foreign language, you'd better make sure you can do it properly), and secondly it will only give them more satisfaction to get a reaction out of you.

I say "swear incorrectly" here, because simply spitting out a couple of swear words you know is not the same as actually using them in the way a native speaker might do if placed in the same situation (I guarantee a native speaker that was inclined to swearing wouldn't have shouted at them "F**k, shit").

There are better ways to show your anger at their disrespect than by demonstrating your own lack of education/manners.

Anyway, I don't by any means condone what those students did, but I can't say I agree with the way your classmate handled the situation either.

[Kenny同志]

Anyway, I don't by any means condone what those students did, but I can't say I agree with the way your classmate handled the situation either.

I don't know the poster. I found the posts on the university forum and was surprised. How could they do such things?

[anwenjie]

How could they do such things?

I'm not sure what point is? That Chinese people wouldn't behave badly in such situations? Or that it's somehow worse because they are 老外? Me having the same skin colour as them doesn't mean I have sympathy for them. Even if they happened to be from the same country as me (out of a large number of countries where caucasians are the majority), that wouldn't make me more sympathetic or empathetic towards them.

[gato]

There is segment of expats in China (and probably in other poor countries) that walk around as if they own the place. When I see them, I feel the urge to confront them and ask who the f**k they think they are. So far, I haven't followed through with the urge, but it's awfully tempting. You don't see foreigners in the West behaving with such lack of respect, probably the locals in the West are much less tolerant of such respect. A foreigner would be putting himself at danger if he acted that way. Here in China, the local may not like the bad behavior, but they keep their feelings to themselves and don't do anything about it. Even the cursing that your classmate did is pretty rare.

[Kenny同志]

There're also nice ones here and they are always welcome. I made the posts just to show how disgusting such behavior is.

I think why Chinese people react mildly to these is because some're afraid to 得罪 laiwai, but more don't think their lack of manners is worth a fight or cursing at all. However, if a bad guy went too far, he would be very likely to pay for what he's done.

Edited December 29, 2009 at 04:37 AM by kenny2006woo

[gato]

Yes, Chinese culture is family-based, and people are reluctant to take a risk unless it takes a family member or a close friend. Kids are taught at a young age to mind their own business (别管闲事), even though sometimes they should for the benefit of the society. It's very different from Christian-based societies, where everything is your business. Most of the time, that's good (e.g. Red Cross, Amnesty International, Doctors without Borders); but sometimes, that results in over-reaching (a la George Bush). Chinese people, on the other hand, are mostly too passive, a result of 2000 years of living under emperors. It's something that Lu Xun was despondent about, and things haven't changed that much in the 70 years since Lu Xun passed away.

[Kenny同志]

Quote:

How could they do such things?

I'm not sure what point is?

I was wondering how come these foreign UNIVERSITY STUDENTS lacked of the most basic manners.

Edited December 28, 2009 at 02:05 PM by kenny2006woo

[anwenjie]

True, I've certainly come across expats who are like that. But maybe I've been lucky - the overwhelming part of the expats I've met have been nice people. Of course I in no way condone such behaviour. I'm disgusted by it as well.

[roddy]

I made the posts just to show how disgusting such behavior is.

Thanks, we'd probably all thought this was good manners.

[Kenny同志]

I don't understand, Roddy. Would you explain? You think they did right???

[roddy]

It was my ill-placed sarcasm again Kenny, ignore me.

[longpeng]

As a foreigner here I hate to hear stories of others acting in such a manner. What they did was just plain rude and selfish. But sometimes we all do that do things and not realize how badly it makes us look.

As a foreigner I do believe I am a guest in China and should behave in the appropriate respectful manner. With that said sometimes the very lack of culture, manners, and respect the Chinese can show is well can make many of a foreigner want to behave badly.

For example in the West if you cut in line its understandable that you will get your face rearranged. Here the Chinese seem to have no concept that lining up is respectful and that pushing and shoving is for 4 year kids.

Whereas in Beijing the traffic is fairly orderly, some of the other cities, well maybe they should go back to walking until they learn how to drive right. I saw some stupid rich kid the other day that thought he was all that parking his Lexus in the middle of ave standing next to it puffing on a cigarette. Try that elsewhere and you will have smoke coming out the extra bullet holes in your neck.

[stoney]

Believe it or not, there are lots of foreigners (including Chinese) in the west who also act like jerks too. But in China it seems people are very tolerant of and patient with us laowai. I think these guys might be taking advantage of that a little.

[gato]

Believe it or not, there are lots of foreigners (including Chinese) in the west who also act like jerks too. But in China it seems people are very tolerant of and patient with us laowai. I think these guys might be taking advantage of that a little.

Yeah, it just seems that the bad apples act out more out here, and sometimes even the good apples join in.

Seriously, if a foreigner (like a Chinese) act obnoxiously in a public way in the US, he is likely to get the shit kicked out of him by the locals.... But in China, the locals like to mind their own business, and so the problematic characters act out.

[Daan]

Surely that is a bit exaggerated? I can only speak for the Netherlands, but we tend not to resort to violence to deal with obnoxious people, be they foreigners or locals...

[gato]

Americans tend to be quicker to resort to violence than the Dutch, I'd imagine. Of course, it would start with some shouting and cursing, and it could escalate into a fist fight pretty quickly. And I don't know about the Netherlands, but there's definitely an undercurrent of racism in the US against non-white people and some people just like to taunt non-white people, and if a non-white person were acting obnoxiously, all the more excuse to act on it.

But I'm not really talking about just race-based actions, people are just more aggressive about calling out obnoxiousness in the US, and it could well very lead to fights and more. And maybe because people understand they will be called out if they are obnoxious in public, people tend to be quite inhibited and well-behaved in public usually. You don't see a lot of shouting and jumping around in subways, for example (except for kids from the ghetto, which is kind of a stereotype, but happens to be true). But here in Shanghai, I would see expat kids shouting and jumping around in the subways as if the other passengers weren't there. It just astonishes me.

[anwenjie]

I was wondering how come these foreign UNIVERSITY STUDENTS lacked of the most basic manners.

I'm not sure why. I can't think of any place where this behaviour is socially acceptable.

Furthermore, those students could've been from America, Canada, Australia, South Africa, Russia or any number of European countries - all places where caucasians are predominant. And what is socially acceptable in one of these countries might not be in another country. Even within a country it can differ a lot: what's acceptable to say and do in New York might not be tolerated in some of the south states.

It's becoming increasingly archaic to look at as an East/West situation. That might make sense when you talk about history and Europe's imperial past, but it's making less and less sense to do so now.

edit:

And I don't know about the Netherlands, but there's definitely an undercurrent of racism in the US against non-white people [...]

I think it's changing these days in Europe, with the influx of people from middle eastern countries. The far right in several countries including Denmark and the Netherlands (I think) are gaining more power. But I don't think it's racism for the most part but culturalism. And where it might be justified in some cases, in most cases it can't be. Nothing good has ever come from stereotyping. I guess that's my point.

Edited December 28, 2009 at 06:06 PM by anwenjie