一点儿 and 一点

[yingwan]

Is it correct to say that 一点儿 is just the Beijing dialect version of 一点?

Is there 一点儿 in Standard Mandarin? If it's there, what's the difference between 一点儿 and 一点?

What about other -儿 words?

Thanks a lot!

[Jose]

Is it correct to say that 一点儿 is just the Beijing dialect version of 一点? Is there 一点儿 in Standard Mandarin?

Standard Mandarin (普通话 pǔtōnghuà) is based on the northern Mandarin dialect as spoken in Beijing, so typical Beijing features like the addition of 儿 at the end of many words (儿化 érhuà) can be regarded as perfectly standard by sheer definition. So, yes, 一点儿 is standard.

However, since it's been many decades since the adoption of the Beijing-based standard, current perceptions as to what is standard and what is not depend more on the general educated use, and not so much on blind adherence to Beijing speech. Because of that, there has been a tendency for the standard language to use less érhuà than originally found in the Beijing dialect. That's why some speakers, especially from southern China, may feel that a plain 一点 is more standard than 一点儿, although such a claim is not backed by dictionaries. Another example of this trend towards less érhuà in the standard language would be the words for 'here', 'there' and 'where'. The érhuà words 这儿, 那儿 and 哪儿 are the ones that textbooks typically use, and I think they were at one point regarded as more standard than the alternative forms with 里: 这里, 那里 and 哪里. But the latter forms are preferred by speakers from other parts of China, and it seems that there has been a growing perception of the latter forms as more standard and neutral. Another similar example is the inclusive-we 咱们 zánmen. This word is used in Beijing and is therefore standard by definition and widely used by Chinese-language textbooks. However, its use is not common outside North China and a lot of Chinese people will claim that it is a dialectal word.

If it's there, what's the difference between 一点儿 and 一点?

儿 originally has a diminutive nuance, so I think (but I am also a learner so I may be wrong) that there is a slight difference between 我会一点英语 and 我会一点儿英语, along the lines of "I speak a bit of English" v. "I speak a little bit of English". Speakers that tend not to use 儿, like the Taiwanese, can achieve the same effect by duplicating 点: 我会一点点英语.

[Aixer]

And what's the difference between "I speak a bit of English" v. "I speak a little bit of English" ?

[imron]

little

[Mugi]

Standard Mandarin (普通话 pǔtōnghuà) is based on the northern Mandarin dialect as spoken in Beijing, so typical Beijing features like the addition of 儿 at the end of many words (儿化 érhuà) can be regarded as perfectly standard by sheer definition.

I don't think this is entirely accurate - I believe it is only the phonology of Modern Standard Chinese (MSC; 普通话) that is specifically "based" on that of Beijing. The syntax, lexicon and morphology are all drawn from broader sources.

Some 儿化 words are considered standard, others not. Not sure if there is a hard and fast rule, but most 儿化 words deemed standard seem to be so because they distinguish meaning from an otherwise homophonous word, and/or because of sheer common usage.

MSC phonology doesn't always follow Beijing pronunciation either. e.g.:

学: traditionally xiáo in Beijing, but xué in MSC

室: shǐ in Beijing, but shì in MSC

Regarding the specific question at hand, like 这里/这儿 etc, I think both 一点 and 一点儿 are deemed standard in MSC.

[Shi Tong]

Yi dian and yi dianer are the same thing, just depends on your accent- Southerns would say yi dian, northeners would probably add the er.

Aixer, if you're trying to say you speak a little tiny bit of English vs I speak a bit, or some, then you need to change the quantitative element of your sentence:

"Wo hui shuo yi dian ying wen" would mean "I am able to speak a bit of English"

"Wo zhi hui shuo gi ge ying wen zi" would mean "I only am able to speak a few English words"

"Wo hui shuo man dou ying wen" would mean "I am able to speak quite a bit of English"

etc.

You could add the extra dian which they do in Taiwan to possibly mean that you speak even less "yi dian dian", a bit bit, or revert to some slang, like "yi di di", meaning a tiny bit- however- I dont know how widely used yi di di is!!