儿

[thejest]

In my Mandarin class my 老师 didn't really cover 儿, and when I asked he didn't really provide much of an explanation, so I am relying on you guys!

My main questions are: what role does 儿 play when added to the end of words, and what are the rules for how it changes pronunciation?

Does 聊天 have the same meaning as 聊天儿, for example? So far my understanding is that when 儿 is added to a word, it changes the pronuciation by basically canceling out the final consonant of the character before it. Is that correct? What about words like 空儿 where kòng ends in two consonants? How would that be pronounced?

I suppose I am just overall confused. Thank you so much for any help!

[Daan]

Adding the 儿 suffix is called 儿化 érhuà. You're most likely to come across 儿化 in Pekingese Mandarin, whereas it's rare to hear this in southern China. Be that as it may, it's still part of standard PRC Mandarin, so I'm not sure why your teacher did not want to cover this.

It depends from case to case whether adding the 儿 suffix produces a word with a different meaning from the root it's affixed to. To the best of my knowledge, 聊天 and 聊天儿 are in free variation, but 画 and 画儿 are not interchangeable: 画 huà 'to paint' is a verb, while 画儿 huàr 'a painting' is a noun. The best thing to do is simply to stick with your textbook when you're a beginner, since this can be quite confusing.

So far my understanding is that when 儿 is added to a word, it changes the pronuciation by basically canceling out the final consonant of the character before it. Is that correct? What about words like 空儿 where kòng ends in two consonants? How would that be pronounced?

kòng's final is -ng, not -g (which cannot be used as a final), so the entire final would be replaced by -r.

If you search for erhua, you will find other relevant threads with more examples.

[HashiriKata]

kòng ends in two consonants?

Just to add that "ng" here are two letters used together to represent one consonant, so "ng" is one consonant (Chinese doesn't have double consonants or consonant clusters).

[johndones]

To the best of my knowledge, 聊天 and 聊天儿 are in free variation, but 画 and 画儿 are not interchangeable: 画 huà 'to paint' is a verb, while 画儿 huàr 'a painting' is a noun.

Actually 画 can be both.

[Daan]

Yes, but 画儿 huàr cannot be used as a verb, so my point about them not being interchangeable still stands.

[LongwenChinese]

People in the north of China use "儿" a lot, while people in the south don't usually add it.

[johndones]

Sure, no doubt about that, just added it so nobody gets the idea that 画 is only a verb and therefore 画儿 has to be used to make it a noun. Obviously you didn't say it, but that's the idea I got after reading it.

[chrix]

Well AFAIK, in the BJ standard, it must be 画儿, but many don't follow this government-set standard... This kind of thing is hard to check in a dictionary, but people taking that Mandarin proficiency exam to become teachers or TV announcers have to get all of these "right".

[Inkfish]

actually, if you don't know where to add 兒, do not add it.

it is always correct without 兒 and it's not if you use it incorrectly.

and it's also hard to pronounce even if the usage is correct

[renzhe]

it is always correct without 兒 and it's not if you use it incorrectly.

No.

This is true if you use 儿化 for colour or to change the register (official/colloquial), but not if the meaning is affected.

You can't drop the 儿 in 这儿, 哪儿, 待会儿, 大伙儿, and some others, you have to rephrase / use another word instead.

[Inkfish]

of course you have to add 兒 after 大夥, because this word itself is more like a northern dialect.

alright, Madarin IS formed based on northern dialect. so i have no objections if you want to define 大夥兒 an official expression.

but you should be awared that people in south china hardly say 大夥兒

yes. you can't drop the 兒 in the words you mentioned.

it's not that you have to rephrase them.

why would you use those erhualization words at the first place?

you could simply say 這裡 那裏 等一下 大家

[renzhe]

I'm just saying it's not always correct to drop the 儿, which is how I understood your post.

I'm aware that you can express yourself without using erhua by sticking to phrases which don't require it (like 这里). But you can't simply drop 儿 wherever you see it.

So for learners of Chinese, I recommend sticking to the official stuff printed in their textbooks. It's mostly very common stuff like 这儿, 待会儿, etc. and everybody should know these, regardless of whether they personally use them in daily life.

[Inkfish]

Maybe i didnt express myself clearly. I was referring to those nouns like hua, niao, shu. You can add er after hua, but you cant after shu. Its all correct if you dont after either. Thats my point.

[Daan]

That's certainly true, but then it won't necessarily be official standard 普通話 any more and that's what most learners are trying to master, which is why we advise people to stick with the pronunciations given in their textbook