"The Lady in the Painting"

[BeijingSlacker]

Could the first one be 'sometimes sings' rather than 'has time to sing'?

Second one is something like they work when they have work to do, and play when they have time to play – ie they do what they should, when they should.

Family business might be better as ‘housework’, though it’s maybe not broad enough.

Right on, roddy.

Also, 張大明 is definitely a guy's name. 大 is not used in girls's names, at least not I can think of.

[Quest]

张小妹，刘大姐 j/k

[xuechengfeng]

可是到了晚上﹐別人都回家了﹐張大明也回家了。

Would this just be,

"but when the night came, the others all returned home, and Zhang Daming also returned home?"

[Claw]

xuechengfeng: Yep, you got it.

[xuechengfeng]

Ok, back again

pages 1-20 help

I'll try to translate these so it doesn't seem I'm asking for homework to be done.

他畫那張畫兒的時候很想﹐張大明的屋子裡有這樣一張畫兒

--When he painted that painting he really thought, inside Zhang Daming's room you has this kind of painting. (makes no sense to me)

拿了一塊昨天夜裡坐的點心

Carried a piece of last night's dessert?

那個時候﹐正是七八月﹐是最忙的時候。

At that time, from July to August, is when he's most busy??

他把大夫請來

He invited the doctor to come. (I don't understand why "ba")

所以他立刻就往家跑﹐想去看看怎麼回來怎麼能下來呢﹖

So he immediately ran towards his house, ????????????????????

還是不知道是怎麼回事。最後﹐他想他得去作工去了

Still does not know how ???. Finally, he thought he had to go to work.

他不信能真有這樣兒的事。

He didn't believe he really was able to have this affair.

最後他得想在應當怎麼辦

????????????????????

他正在早一點兒回去看看﹐所以他說﹐也好

Now, he returned a little early to see, so he said, that's also good??? (huhhhhhh)

怎麼辦好呢﹖

Zhongwen.com says zenme ban = What should be done? However, I don't know why there is a "hao" there.

怎麼想也想不出好法子來

??????????????????????????

thank you if you can help.

[Claw]

他畫那張畫兒的時候很想﹐張大明的屋子裡有這樣一張畫兒

--When he painted that painting he really thought, inside Zhang Daming's room you has this kind of painting. (makes no sense to me)

I have the book and noticed you copied it incorrectly. Here's the correct version (including the rest of the sentence so that I can translate it correctly for you):

他畫那張畫兒的時候常想，張大明的屋子裡有這樣一張畫兒，也許他晚上回家以後，可以覺得家裡有一個人。

When he was drawing the painting he was constantly thinking, [if] Zhang Daming's room had this kind of painting, probably, after he comes home at night, he can feel as if his home has a person in it.

拿了一塊昨天夜裡坐的點心

Carried a piece of last night's dessert?

There's another copy error... the book has 作的點心 (actually it really should be 做的點心, but this book seems to use 作 everywhere instead of 做... but I've mentioned that before). Anyway, it means "[he] carried a piece of the snack that he made last night."

點心 means "snack," not "dessert" (though when referring to Cantonese cuisine, it refers to Dim Sum -- the Cantonese pronunciation of 點心 -- a traditional Cantonese brunch offering plates of bite-sized dumplings, etc.).

個時候﹐正是七八月﹐是最忙的時候。

At that time, from July to August, is when he's most busy??

You got it.

他把大夫請來

He invited the doctor to come. (I don't understand why "ba")

The 把 construction is often used to emphasize the object rather than the verb. For instance, instead of 他給我他的書 (He gave me his book), you can say 他把他的書給我.

所以他立刻就往家跑﹐想去看看怎麼回來怎麼能下來呢﹖

So he immediately ran towards his house, ????????????????????

Hmm... for some reason, in my book, it reads: 所以他立刻就往家跑，想去看看怎麼回事, which means, "So he immediately ran towards his house, [because] he wanted to see how this was happening."

Is there a part of your text that's cut off? A few sentences down, there is a sentence that ends with 怎麼能下來呢？, which means, "how was [she] able to come down [off the painting]?"

還是不知道是怎麼回事。最後﹐他想他得去作工去了

Still does not know how ???. Finally, he thought he had to go to work.

回事 means "result," so the sentence means "[he] still doesn't know how this resulted." Generally 怎麼回事 can be used to mean, "What's going on?"

他不信能真有這樣兒的事。

He didn't believe he really was able to have this affair.

Yep.

最後他得想在應當怎麼辦

????????????????????

BTW, you're missing a character: 最後他得想現在應當怎麼辦 = Finally he was now able to come up with how he ought to deal [with this].

他正在早一點兒回去看看﹐所以他說﹐也好

Now, he returned a little early to see, so he said, that's also good??? (huhhhhhh)

...so he said, [this is] good. Here 也 is being used to emphasize that it's good rather than taking the meaning of "also."

怎麼辦好呢﹖

Zhongwen.com says zenme ban = What should be done? However, I don't know why there is a "hao" there.

With 好, the question becomes, "What is best to be done?"

怎麼想也想不出好法子來

??????????????????????????

= However he thought, he was unable to think up a good solution.

Again 也 is being used here to emphasize that he was unable to think up a good solution rather than taking the meaning of "also."

[Claw]

Is there a part of your text that's cut off? A few sentences down, there is a sentence that ends with 怎麼能下來呢？, which means, "how was [she] able to come down [off the painting']?"

In the case that your text is indeed cut off, here's the part of the text that you're missing.

……所以他立刻就往家跑，想去看看怎麼回事。

　他跑到家，開開門，往屋子裡一看，你想屋子裡著了火沒有？

　他跑到屋子裡一看，屋子裡沒著火，他就放心了。再一看火上有作好了的吃的東西。他覺得奇怪極了。他想，這是誰作的呢？他看了看那張畫兒。他又想，真是畫兒上的那個人給我作的嗎？可是畫兒上的人，怎麼能下來呢？他想來想去，想不出來是怎麼回事。

Note: 火 = stove

[xuechengfeng]

Thanks for your help, yikes, I surely did miss a lot of characters or write them incorrectly.. it was 3 am, sorry

[roddy]

Xuechengfeng, is this a special learners version you are reading, or the 'real' version? And if it is, does it say what level it is for or anything?

Oh and . . .

BTW, you're missing a character: 最後他得想現在應當怎麼辦

thanks to Claw for ending my confusion

Roddy

[xuechengfeng]

This book is making me . I am just horrible with grammar. I've been writing every sentence out into English and some make ZERO sense.

點心 means "snack," not "dessert"

This is what happens when your school uses a textbook so archaic. Damn you DeFrancis!!!!!!!! This is also the book where it said 奇怪 meant "amazing."

怎麼能下來呢？

Yes, I flubbed up by grouping this together, I meant it as two separate ones. Actually, I didn't even mean to put it down because I figured out when I got home from work that 下來 meant "come down."

...so he said, [this is] good. Here 也 is being used to emphasize that it's good rather than taking the meaning of "also."

Is there anyway to distinguish between stuff like this? Jiu, ye, hai.. always killing me.

This language is so hardddddddddddd

Thanks again, Claw, I'll be back with pages 21-40 in 2 days probably.

[xuechengfeng]

Xuechengfeng, is this a special learners version you are reading, or the 'real' version? And if it is, does it say what level it is for or anything?

This wasn't meant to be a joke, but it sure ended up as one.

No, it's the normal version, but I stay up too late and I don't check to make sure I'm typing the write character, adding all of them, and everything else essential for me to get help.

[Claw]

Don't get too discouraged xuechengfeng... the book was just as difficult for me as well the first time I read it. I actually haven't opened the book for over three years now and was pleased by how far my Chinese ability has come when I opened it again to help you with your questions. Just keep working at it and soon you'll be able to get it too!

[Learner]

Roddy wrote:

Xuechengfeng, is this a special learners version you are reading, or the 'real' version? And if it is, does it say what level it is for or anything?

------------------------------------

As far as I can see, xuechengfeng's version is the one written by Fred Fang-Yu Wang and published by Far Eastern Publications (Yale University) in 1957. In this version, according to the foreword, "Mr. Wang has taken a well-known Chinese folktale and retold it within the rather tight limitations of 300 characters." New characters and expressions beyond the 300 introduced in Read Chinese, Book 1, are explained in footnotes at the bottom of every page and also included in a glossary at the end of the book.

Wang wrote his retelling in traditional characters. However, for those who prefer (or at least do not mind) simplified characters, an electronic version of the first part of the story in available from two sites:

an html version from

http://homepages.stuy.edu/~jrolle/indexfm4.htm

and a pdf version from

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Foreign-Languages-and-Literatures/21F-103Fall2003/InclassActivities/

Both sites also contain additional material of interest to students of Chinese.

Learner

[xuechengfeng]

pages 21-40

他跟大明兩個人不是也得上很多錢的稅嗎﹖

"Don't her (Mei Zhen) and Da Ming also have to pay a lot of taxes?"

不早了﹐我們去逮鴿子去吧。老在這兒說話辦不了事。

"It's become late, I suppose we should catch pigeons. We're always unable to carry out business here."

不是就是兩個鴿子的事情嗎﹖

"Isn't the matter only 2 pigeons?"

我給你們兩個。那兩個人一聽都高興了。美真就問這個問那個。問了很多話。

"I'll give you two (pigeons). As soon as they heard this they became happy. Mei Zhen then asked here and there (I'm assuming the person close & far away?). She asked many words."

那個人一想也對。可是有甚麼法子呢﹖他說﹐要是我們送到了的時候是真鴿子﹐那就

行了。他吃的時候﹐是不是紙的﹐那就不是我們的事了。

"That person thought it over, and it was also right. But did they have a method? He said, if when we present this real pigeon, then that is OK. When he eats it, whether it's paper or not, then that is not our matter."

他們知道不是那兩個鴿子又變成紙的了。

"They thought the two pigeons didn't become paper."

美真說﹐“你別著急﹐聽我慢慢兒的告訴你。”美真這才把昨天逮鴿子人哭

"Mei Zhen said, 'Don't worry, listen and I'll slowly tell you.' Only then did Mei Zhen tell of yesterday's catching pigeons and crying people." (The part that confuses me is 美真這, which looks something like "Mei Zhen this, only then..." I'm assuming it means only after Mei Zhen said this.)

我要看看這個女人是一個甚麼樣兒的人。

"I want to see what type of woman this is?" (I don't get the shenmo in here)

應當替平常人想想

.................no clue.................

thank you again.............

[yonglan]

I've been writing every sentence out into English

I beg you not to, Sir.

and some make ZERO sense.

Chinese and English are such different languages. Even Japanese translates into English much more easily than Chinese.

[xuechengfeng]

Why shouldn't I write it out in English? It helps me attempt to translate, and it helps me remember the story better.

[roddy]

Makes it a lot easier to help if the English is there, as you can see where the misunderstandings are.

老在這兒說話辦不了事

Talking here won't get anything done.

問這個問那個

Means asked a lot of different questions.

And that's all the Christmas present you're getting from me

[Pravit]

Makes it a lot easier to help if the English is there, as you can see where the misunderstandings are.

True, but would it be a good idea to write every sentence out into English while you're reading it?

Learner, thank you for the link! BTW, how many parts are there? There's some more at http://homepages.stuy.edu/~jrolle/chinese/lady2.htm

Is that the whole story? And does anyone know where I could find more reading material like this?

[xuechengfeng]

Well, depends on what your aim is. I think that I'm trying to understand sentence structures better and how they translate into English, so I feel that by translating each sentence and asking about those I'm confused on, it helps me figure things out. Also, for my class, the laoshi often questions on obscure little points in the book, so I figure if I translate out every little detail, it will help me remember better instead of flipping through the book.

I can't read the link you're talking about but the book is 80 pages long, if that helps.

[Pravit]

The link is in GB encoding. Must be a condensed version; the first link leads you to a PDF of the first part of the book, and it seems a bit different from the second one.

BTW, I'm curious, why does he use 甚么 later on in the text? I've always seen it as 什么. And in this part: 他又想，真是画儿上的那个人给我作的么？, why does he use that 么 on the end instead of 吗? Perhaps they change the meaning a bit?