日语 and 日文 vs 日本语 and 日本话

[atitarev]

Hi,

Are all these forms acceptable? I was taught 日语 and 日文 are correct in Chinese but always thought that 日本语 and 日本话 are incorrect (日本語 is the Japanese word for the Japanese language). Can someone please verify?

[Hofmann]

I would say 日本語 is rare or incorrect. 日本話 is barely acceptable.

[chrix]

Can't verify much, but here's my take, based on what I've learnt:

日文: more common in Taiwan

日語: more common on the mainland

(as a rule that's usually how 文 and 語 are distributed, but both versions can be used in both standards)

日本話: don't trust my google-fu too much on this one... Very few results for Mandarin, Taiwanese, Cantonese... But doesn't seem to be the prevalent way of saying it in either language...

日本語: the Japanese way of saying it

Edited February 19, 2010 at 02:01 AM by chrix

[skylee]

Both 日語 and 日文 are ok. 日本話 is less ok but will be understood. 日本語 is ok only if you are talking to a Japanese, or to people who have learnt or are learning Japanese.

[atitarev]

Thank you all.

What do you think of this quote:

Baidu on 日语

日语...全称日本语...

skylee:

日本語 is ok only if you are talking to a Japanese, or to people who have learnt or are learning Japanese.

It's like using words "Putonghua" or (less common) "Nihongo" in English but is 日本语/日本語 an acceptable dictionary form in Chinese? Words like Hanyu and Zhongwen will be understood by Chinese learners as well but I don't think they could be called English words (unless they have already been included).

Edited February 19, 2010 at 05:14 AM by atitarev

[Glenn]

It looks to me like it's just saying that that's the full name in Japanese, if you want to be "correct" (for lack of a better term for it) in Chinese. The rest of the article doesn't use it, except to show the kana and romanization for it. It looks like they're saying the equivalent of an English speaker saying "Japanese, or Nihongo..."

At least that's what it looks like to me. I'm still a Chinese infant.

[skylee]

is 日本语/日本語 an acceptable dictionary form in Chinese?

That you will have to ask those authorities who produce dictionaries, or ask those who are very well-learned.

But I have done a simple test. I pasted the four terms to the 教育部重編國語辭典. There are entries under 日語 and 日文, but no entries for 日本話 and 日本語. You can do this test on other dictionaries such as Xinhua or Xiandai Hanyu Cidian, I think.

[atitarev]

Thank you for doing a search, Skylee. I may check some other dictionaries but I got the idea. To native Chinese speakers these two don't sound like natural words.

[semantic nuance]

日本話 is fine. We use that, too. At least in Taiwanese, we say 日本話, in addtion to 日文, 日語. Google 日本話 and you'll find a bunch of it.

[doraemon]

I think you would most commonly say 日语. I'm not sure if this rule applies here, but I remember that my Chinese teacher used to tell me that the difference between 汉语 and 中文 is that 汉语 is used when you're talking about speaking or listening to Chinese while 中文 is used when you're referring to reading, writing Chinese. But he said both were acceptable anyway, but if you wanted to be really pedantic you then you could use this 'rule'. Could this be the same for Japanese as well?

[trien27]

語/语 = language, but in Chinese, it might have to deal with tone of voice or grammars, also, but not in Japanese. This just means "language" in Japanese.

話/话 = colloquial or spoken language

文 = written language

Simple as that, so 日本話 Nihongo = Japanese language

Note: Not all kanji are simplified in Japanese.

日本话 & 日文 are sometimes used interchangeably in Chinese for both the spoken & written Japanese language when it's spoken, but when it's written, there is a difference:

日本话 = spoken Japanese, where 日文 = written Japanese

日语 is short for 日本语 = the Japanese language as a whole.

but I remember that my Chinese teacher used to tell me that the difference between 汉语 and 中文 is that 汉语 is used when you're talking about speaking or listening to Chinese while 中文 is used when you're referring to reading, writing Chinese.

汉语 / 国语 = Chinese language

中文 / 中国文字 = written Chinese

中国话 / 普通话 = spoken Chinese

Learn this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IXO3vv4tvE

Edited February 20, 2010 at 03:51 PM by trien27

[Hofmann]

汉语 / 国语 = Chinese language

中文 / 中国文字 = written Chinese

中国话 / 普通话 = spoken Chinese

Nah.

漢語 means Han language. 國語 is national language, although if you're speaking Chinese, you're probably referring to the national language of the Republic of China. 中文 is written Han language, including 字. 中國文字 is Chinese 文 and 字 (Only Han languages have 文 and 字 Nevermind. It seems that Tangut, Khitan, and Jurchen have some.). 中國話 is Chinese language. 普通話 is Standard Mandarin.

Edited February 21, 2010 at 07:23 AM by Hofmann

[Inkfish]

日本語 is a Japanese word

[Shi Tong]

Simple answer:

日语 and 日文 are the best forms, and the ones that I hear.

Of course, the others would be understood, but it doesn't make them right.

IMO 语 means language as does 文, but 话 refers more to the spoken language.

[anonymoose]

In Shanghainese, usually it is called 日文. I don't know if any other forms are also acceptable.