An old recording

[skylee]

I have come across this old recording (1924) and I find it very interesting.

Especially when I think of how learners here look down at people with accents and people who can't differentiate z, c, s and zh, ch, sh here.

This is on youtube. I don't think it can be viewed in China. I suppose there is no such a recording on Chinese websites either (but I am not sure).

Listen -> 三民主義的演說

Edited February 26, 2010 at 01:32 PM by skylee

[zhangbin]

youbute在中国被屏蔽了。国外的很多网站因为政治原因在中国都不能打开。顺便问一下，这个网站是哪里的。服务器在美国吗。zh ch sh 和z c s关键是卷着舌头与伸直舌头的区别。

youbute is not open to chinese because of politics.by the way,where is the webside.is it in American?　zh ch sh　pronounce by rolling up your tongue .z c s pronounce by unbening your tongue. i am a chinese,and not good for English,so,i am not promise that you could understand what i have write. good luck.

[Ah-Bin]

Very interesting....

Some people always need something to look down on people for, they can't look down on southerners (or Taiwanese) for being poor and uneducated, so they have to pick on other things instead.

BTW I hope that everyone reading this knows exactly how to watch youtube in China by now, it's not that difficult.

[Hofmann]

Well, that was teh first post of teh awesomeness...

All you have to do is say stuff like "I can see your websites but you can't see mine. What does that tell you about your government?" and people will suddenly play dumb.

But in case you don't even want to go there and listen, I'll paste what he said from the description of the video:

诸君：我们大家是中国的人。我们知道中国几千年来，是世界上头一等的强国。我们的文明 进步，在各国之先。当中国顶强盛的时代，正所谓千邦进贡，万国来朝。那个时候，中国的 文明在世界上是第一的，中国是世界上头一等强国。到了现在怎幺样呢？

现在的时代，我们的中国，是世界上顶弱顶贫的国家。现在世界上没有一个能看得起中国人 的。所以现在世界上的列强，对于中国都有瓜分中国的念头，也就是近来各国有共管中国的 意思。为什幺我们从前顶强的国家，现在变成这个地步呢？

这就是中国我们近几百年，我们国民睡着了，我们睡了，不知道世界各国进步的地方。我们睡着之后，还是以为我们几百年前是这样的富强的。因为睡着了，所以我们几百年来文明退步，政治堕落，变成现在不得了的局面。我们中国人，在今天应该要知道我们现在的地步，要赶快想想法子，怎样来挽救，那末我们中国还可以有的救。不然，中国就要成为一个亡国 灭种的地位大家要警醒！警醒！

今天，中国的安危存亡，全在我们中国的国民睡还是醒。如果我们还是睡，那末，就很危险 。如果我们能从今天就醒起来，那末，中国前途的命运还是有很大的希望。

现在世界的潮流，都进到新的文明，我们如果大家能醒起来，向新的文明这条路去走，我们才可以跟得到各国来追向前去，那幺，要醒起来，中国才能有望，为什幺呢？怎幺样说法呢？就是我们能醒起来，我们大家才有思想，有动作，大家才能立志来救这个国家。大家能知道这一件事，中国不难来有救的。今天，我们要来救这个中国，要从哪一条路走呢？我们就是要从革命这条路去走，拿革命的主义来救中国，拿这个革命的三民主义就是民族主义、民 权主义和民生主义，这就是所谓的三民主义。

民族主义，就是拿中国要做到同现在列强处在平等地位，民族主义就是图国际上在平等地位：民权主义，就是要拿本国的政治，弄成到大家在政治上有一个平等地位，以民为主，拿民来治国家，民生主义，就是弄到人人生计上、经济上平等。那幺这个样的三民主义，如果我们能实行，中国也可以跟到列强来进步，不久也可以变成一个富强的国家。

诸君：今天听了我的话，大家想中国再恢复我们从前几千年的强盛不想啊？如果大家想的话 ，就是要大家立志，要立志，大家就要研究这个三民主义，三民主义，我近来在广东高师学校，每个礼拜讲一次，每次讲了两点多钟。民族主义，我讲了六个礼拜才讲完。民权主义也讲了六个礼拜才讲完，不久再来开始讲民生主义，大概也要讲六个礼拜，八个礼拜，说不定 的。

这个三民主义讲完之后，我们将演词刻了单行本。现在民族主义已经出书，民权主义，不久 也要出书，将来民生主义讲完，也是一样刻单行本出书，广传到中国各省，望诸君要留心找这个书三民主义三个原则，来详详细细研究，其中很多好道理，很多新思想，很多新发明，是中国人从前没有听过的，这个演说，我以为是很有趣味的，望诸君要买这个书来看，看过之后要留心详详细细地研究。如果能把三民主义详细来读过，详细来了解，那末，诸君就懂得怎幺样来立志救中国。既已懂得之后，把三民主义宣传到大家都知道。

那幺令大家都立志来救中国，那末中国很快可以变成一个富强的国家，与列强并驾齐驱，这 就是我所望于诸君的。

Edited February 26, 2010 at 11:52 AM by Hofmann

[xiaocai]

It is indeed very interesting to listen to. Actually I think his mandarin is good, at least much better than that of some other people (you know who I am talking about, right?) who could not speak mandarin at all. It would be even more interesting if everyone can just talk about "Speaking and Listening Skills" here. We do have "Chinese culture" subforums here don't we.

Speaking of "accent discrimination", I think it depends on how you look at it. To me it is nothing more than a personal preference most of the time, rather than looking down upon certain accents. I think it is quite understandable that when someone wants to learn a new language, they would prefer to learn the standard form first, and could be frustrated when they have found out that few people in China can actually speak standard mandarin. If they really "look down" at people with accent then they pretty much look down at almost everyone, probably including themselves. As for the 平舌 and 卷舌 matter, I think it is not such a bad thing that you can differentiate them, at least that can help you pass certain exams, even we care less about it in real life situations.

Edited February 27, 2010 at 02:46 AM by xiaocai
typo, :P

[gato]

It is indeed very interesting to listen to. Actually I think his mandarin is good, at least much better than that of some other people (you know who I am talking about, right?) who could speak mandarin at all.

That's true. Mao's Mandarin was horrid even though he lived in Beijing and worked as a library clerk at PKU. What's up with that? How was he able lead when nobody understood what he said?

[xiaocai]

It might just have been anecdotal but I heard he often needed an interpreter.

[Glenn]

Is he using 這個 as a filler all over the place? I swear I keep hearing it.

Especially when I think of how learners here look down at people with accents and people who can't differentiate z, c, s and zh, ch, sh here.

I haven't been around here to see whether people look down on said speakers, but in my case, I need all the differentiation I can get right now, and my base is Mandarin that does differentiate those sounds, so coming across a speaker who doesn't would just leave me at a loss. My feeling wouldn't be one of looking down on them; it would be a strong desire for them to help me out.

I suppose it's the case just about everywhere that whatever dialect became the standard of a certain language is considered the elite and correct version of the language, and anyone who doesn't conform is an idiot. It certainly seems to be the case in the US, although I have been told by more than a few people that I have a nice (even cute) accent (it's nowhere near the standard, I would bet).

It seems that in Japan, though, dialects are almost considered to be treasures, with the western dialects making their ways into the standard language because they became popular due to popular comedy acts coming from that part of the country (from what I've heard... haven't actually looked into it myself). It almost seems like people from the east try to throw it into their speech just to seem cool, but then again it's been a while since I've hung out with Japanese people, so I may just be remembering incorrectly.

Anyway, are there any sorts of dialectal differences in Mandarin aside from the above lack of distinction of certain sounds in some regions? I do remember seeing 啥 used to mean 甚麼, which I assume adds a bit of flair and flavor to one's speech, but I'm not sure what flavor, exactly. Are there any other examples like this?