China blog digest/e-zine idea

[adambsmurf]

China bloggers have been discussing doing a collaborative project together. The possible ideas are thus:

(1) A kind of Carnival of the Vanities, in which blogs that want to participate host the event at their domain in whatever format they desire, collecting posts they think is most relevant from others. It is then each hosts' duty to list those posts and whatever description they desire.

Advantages:

Doesn't require writing of new material.

Disadvantages:

No central location.

(2) A seperate domain under which an e-zine would be created with bloggers interested in china write together.

Advantages:

Central location, fresh content

Disadvantage:

Requires design template and more writing

My own feeling is that the digest in the form of the Carnival is better, for we would get more "bang for the buck" not requiring a lot of ground work and quite possibly attracting those readers and bloggers who have an interest in China to submit their posts to our digest. It would also allow those who host the carnival to get to know other blogs better.

The e-zine idea isn't a bad one though; I'll let others argue for that one.

From my point of view I'll just start up the Carnival myself even if there isn't a lot of discussion/participation. For the e-zine idea to work we need to really discuss how to work that, etc.

Let the fray begin.

[bokane]

I'd argue against the carnival-of-the-whatsit idea - the fact that there's no central site for it is a near-fatal drawback, as it means that whoever wants to read it will be forced to keep track of who hosts it which month. Instead, I suggest that we take Chairman Meow up on the offer of livinginchina.com (if the good Chairman is still offering, that is), and set up a system where rather than moving from blog to blog, we have one site, run and designed by a different editor(s) each month (or however often we'll end up doing it).

I also think that besides "best-of" blog entries, there should be a significant amount of original content, be it in personal entry or article form. After all, I think we generally keep fairly up to date on the other China bloggers' posts; no point in reusing them all.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

[smithsgj]

um excuse me i haven't got a clue what any of you are going on about. (since i don't own any websites, perhaps i should be minding my own business?)

[Guest Chairman Meow]

Hiya, yeah I'm definitely in favour of the latter option. The project deserves a level of consistency which readers can rely on and that means a central location and a clear editing format.

Rotating the location and overall editing (and by default the design) could be confusing. I'm not saying any one individual would claim ownership of the whole project - be it location of editing responsibilities - however contributors should be given their own level of ownership of elements of the production. For instance one person with a strength in development may wish to take on the technical challenges of the project. Another with an interest in politics (or any other topic for that matter) may want to be the "political editor". Another member of the group who likes photography may like to contribute images for the zine.

In other words, lets exploit one another's core interests and talents to create the best possible result.

[Guest Chairman Meow]

(sorry, just had to pop out and teach)

Also, I am curious to know what people individually want to contribute to the zine.

Looking around our little community of blogs it appears we have a healthy mix of talent. We have strong news and current affairs writers, excellent day-to-day observers, people with design and technical know-how, creative writers, photographers, potential opinion columnists and, importantly, a mix of views which would give the zine depth, perspective and relevance.

So put your hand up and offer what you can or just say outright what you'd like to offer the project.

For my part I'm happy to offer domain registration and hosting, contribute to the design, and in keeping with the new theme of my blog, contribute articles about minorities, human issues, racism and intolerance, not to mention stories relating to Shanghai.

[bokane]

I'd be happy either to contribute original writings or translations of, I dunno, short stories or something. I'm kind of toying with the idea of doing research into the Beijing rock scene for an attempt at publication in a magazine somewhere or something, and if I end up doing that, I could write something similar for the site.

Other than that, I'm not really sure what I could contribute, as I'm not actually good at very much. Translations of the dirty jokes I get sent to my cell phone?

[adambsmurf]

Oh yeah, translations of dirty jokes sounds cool, actually. I'm sure it would get a lot of attention.

I would like to contribue a sort of news round-up, editorial-ish sort of deal that talks about the PRC's movements. God, I'm a glutton for punishment. I'd also like to offer some more creative stuff too.

I can do some design work, although Meow doesn't seem to need much help with that.

If we have a livinginchina domain name that's cool, but if we offer news articles does it sorta rub against the objective for the site?

I'm glad to see people willing to do the e-zine thing, but honestly we need more than just three people to do it. I'm sure others will be weighing in soon.

[Guest andrea@t-salon]

Brendan (bokane) has articulated what I had in mind with regards to a central location (stable URL) for the China blog digest project. And having it somewhere in livinginchina.com (i.e. livinginchina.com/chinablogazine ) makes sense - if Chairman can host it.

What I had in mind is a site similar to PRCNews.com, where we have a 'permanent' page design. We can have different editors each time to blog about worth reading blog posts in the China blog community. Featuring photo(blog) is a nice idea too.

As for additional (collaborative) writing, that would be a bonus if someone can contribute in this regard.

[Guest andrea@t-salon]

Forgot to mention. I can help with collecting blog posts in the China blog community and maybe transcribe selective interesting posts from the Chinese-speaking blogsphere for publishing in the site.

Also, I'll be happy to provide ideas and feedback to help this project started.

I think now it's time to move away from the discussion and onto some real action.

[adambsmurf]

I think now it's time to move away from the discussion and onto some real action.

So what's the first order of business?

Since the e-zine thing seems to have some legs, let's go and formally ask Chairman Meow for the livinginchina domain. I think it suits us really well, because we don't have much "credentials" (in the strict sense) to write about china except that we live here and are engaged in writing about it daily.

Pretty please? With sugar on top?

Okay, now it's time to brainstorm some "sections." We'll then need section editors. One section per person, to start anyway.

Quirky/Odd section: phone translations, perhaps examples of Chinglish, links to different news articles with funny themes

Creative Writing section: Original content, basically whatever the author wants to write about. Stories, whatever. Something tells me this will be our strongest section.

Travelogue section: (Should this go with creative writing?) Self-explanatory

Photos: No idea how that would be implemented though.

News: Hmm... RSS feed from PRC News?

If there are any others let us know.

[bokane]

Those sections sound good. I'd also suggest a "traditional Chinese culture" section, because (a) I'm into literature and (B) people who aren't living in China generally want to hear about stuff like that. It doesn't even have to be cultural, really, just old - history, folk tales, etc. Maybe introduce and give the stories behind a few <i>chengyu</i> each issue?

Also, I'd actually disagree with Andrea regarding a stable design; I think it might be fun if the design changed periodically. There should be common, stable elements (e.g. logo), but...well, actually, I'm basing that on the idea of having rotating editors. If we're not going to do that, then I guess a stable design might be better.

[Guest Chairman Meow]

It would be my pleasure to host the ezine at livinginchina.com

I will write some more tomorrow.

In the meantime, do we have any volunteers for a 'project manager' to direct its production? A pragmatic and focussed person who is good at setting goals, timelines, and collating information? Giving orders?

[adambsmurf]

Brendan/Bokane:

Excellent idea with the traditional culture section. I subscribe to one of those "Chinese triva" things that also gives me a "chengyu of the week".

I'm also keen on slang, and have a few books laying around I've always meant to mention.

I'd like to pass on being project director, in case anybody is wondering. I have too many things on my plate and I work full-time now and already have two blogs to update.

I think having rotating editors sounds like a cool idea, although we're running a bit of a risk. I was thinking more like section managers, but hey if we're all really into it then why not have rotating managers.

Having a changing site design with each manager though would be a bad idea. It would make people wonder about it.

Those things said, I'm going on vacation tonight. I may not be back for discussion until sometime around Tues or Wed.

[bokane]

Yeah - I just thought the changing-design thing would be cool because k10k.net used to do it and I thought it was neat. You're right that it'd introduce inconsistency, but are we really going to try to make this a professional production?

[bokane]

Oh, also, I'd say that although I'd be willing to try the manager thing if nobody else wants to do it, I should probably not be allowed to, given my near-chronic inability to get my shit together within a reasonable timeframe.

[Guest Chairman Meow]

I have given further thought to the project. Mentioned the concept to a few non-bloggers who reckon a centralised 'portal' is better for people who do not spend a lot of time surfing online who want to read about China. We're onto a good thing.

DESIGN.

I think the design will evolve over time. In the beginning though, let's keep it fairly simple. Otherwise we'll spend too much time deliberating over design elements.

Essentially it needs to be neutral, nothing too fancy, works seemlessly across all browsers and operating systems, quick to load and easy to navigate.

I'm tending more towards the style commonly employed by metropolitan newspapers. Navigation on the left, top stories in the middle (top), then main category headlines below that. The right hand column could list the latest entries in our human interest, humour and entertainment sections (trivia, slang, culture, observations, commentary).

Yes, it would be great to have fancy rollovers, animations, snazzy fonts etc, however as I know from first hand experience, a site with too many bells and whistles is usually not entirely compatible across all browsers and systems, and often clever and intricate design detracts from the content or even gives the user the impression the content aint that great.

Send me links to sites you like design-wise, that work well and reflect what we're aiming to achieve. Email michael@boulevardstmichel.com

Perhaps seasonal (ie quarterly) make-overs would be cool.

(I'll knock something up in the next day or two and am happy to share the design files with Adam or anyone - I'll need help with some of the content coding).

PHOTOGRAPHY & DESIGN.

Photos and images will give our project a real lift. What I'm suggesting is approaching photo-bloggers in our community with an aim to building a database of stock or generic images. Whether its shots depicting our major cities, street life, traffic, nature, finance, chaos, families, whatever! These can be stored at a central location and we have the option of adding them to our LIC posts. The photo-bloggers benefit from credits and links to their own sites. They will also feel a sense of inclusion without the pressure to make written contributions.

SECTIONS:

OK, looking at our posts so far it seems we're reaching agreement on which sections LIC will have. And don't worry if they seem a little disjointed or lean. Each will grow and I'm sure new sections will be added and others combined.

1) News - round-up of China-related news, RSS feeds from PRCNews.com or other blogs

2) Features - travelogues and longer articles, either originally written for LIC or syndicated after they've been posted on community blogs

3) Creative Writing - this should really be limited to people who want to express themselves through poetry or prose. A little bit literary.

(I would love to see some translations from Chinese bloggers on these last two sections especially. Andrea?)

4) Traditional Chinese Culture - as Brendan says, Chinese folklore, history, etc.

5) The "funnies" - translations of dirty jokes, Chinglish, links, trivia, slang, funny photos. Emphasis on humour. Balances the 'meatiness' of news and features.

6) Commentary - weekly opinion pieces (eg Andrea publishes Mondays, Adam Tuesdays, etc). Adds variety, promotes our editorial style and lends credence to the project.

7) Life - observations, thoughts, feelings etc about living in China - there's a wealth of these types of entries in our blog community

Anything else?

Needless to say, all syndicated articles, photos, etc will be credited with a link to the author's own blog.

What do you think so far?

As I said, in time these sections will change and grow as new people join the project, which leads me to...

THE TEAM

At the moment there's only a few of us on board and that's not necessarily a bad thing, if we want to get "some action on this". We just need to pioneer the project and once it's up and running I guarantee more people will join the project. And each person will be able to offer varying degrees of commitment, and that's fine too. There can be no room for egos here, just a collective spirit to promote the voices of people living in China. We may even get contributions from non-bloggers who simply want to get published.

To that end I think the concept of section editors will work and we need to trust each other to make the right decisions and be prepared that mistakes will be made and differences of opinion will occur. It's all healthy stuff.

So I'm mooting a News/Editorial Producer (Adam?), a Features and/or Creative Writing Producer (Andrea?), a Producer for the 'funnies' (better name needed, I know) (Brendan?), someone to run the Chinese Culture section, a photo editor, and so on, for each major section. In the beginning we may need to take on a little bit extra. Soon we'll each need to make an effort to approach all the bloggers in China and inspire them to participate in some way, shape or form.

What so you want to take on?

Essentially the role of the producer (that's just webspeak for editor) is to prioritise and publish contributed content.

Of course we can change the producers from time to time. Perhaps each month we can call for 'nominations' and - to use a very Australian term - give 'em a go! Current producers may also nominate or else opt to take a breather. As long as anyone who really wants to participate as a producer is given a chance. We can't turn people away.

IMAGE

Let's discuss the editorial style and image of LIC. What do you want to see?

For my part, it has to be original, creative, witty and relevant.

Lastly, I'm usually contactible online via MSN Messenger at mikeyinchina@hotmail.com (please introduce yourself when making initial contact.

ciao for now

[Guest Chairman Meow]

I said: "Essentially the role of the producer (that's just webspeak for editor) is to prioritise and publish contributed content"

Of course there's a lot more to being a producer than just deciding on the order of articles and correcting grammar and spelling. However in the beginning (and with no money), we can't exactly solicit content, only take what people are willing to contribute. I would hope that producers take an active role in promoting, shaping and improving their sections.

[roddy]

I've been reading this thread with interest. If it all gets off the ground it could become a very interesting site.

A couple of comments from me

Name - I don't think livinginchina is such a good name. It sounds like it will be much more slanted towards practical advice and info rather than a magazine type thing. My first thoughts are that you should go for something like 'chinezine' or something - it's easier to tell from that what your site will be about.

Design - I'm falling more and more in love with simplicity. I'm currently working on a new site that will be entirely graphics free and all formatting and positioning done with CSS. I reckon my average page size should be under 6K, while the front page of this forum weighs in at 60K - think of that in terms of loading time for modem users . . .I fully agree with the comments made above about keeping it free of bells and whistles.

I'd keep the design the same - it might be fun to think about changing it every month or three months just now, but 2 or 3 years down the road? Keep it consistent - I think visitors would get tired of a constantly changing design.

Content - I was wondering when someone was going to mention including Chinese bloggers. Glad to see it got done. What would be really interesting is if you could get some Chinese bloggers to comment on stories that are big in the western press - 'In other's eyes' or something.

Translations of odd little stories from Chinese newspapers?

Some kind of 'word of the day' or 'character of the week' feature - people love the explanations behind characters.

Cooperation.

I'd be interested to hear any ideas about how the ezine and this forum can tie in. Thoughts?

Roddy

PS You might want to think about starting seperate topics for discussion of hosting / content / design / etc - otherwise this thread is going to get overlong and difficult to follow for newcomers.

[Guest Chairman Meow]

Good points.

NAME.

I originally suggested the domain name livinginchina.com as it's one I own and have not done anything with. As Adam has said, it captures what we all have in common and can have some authority to write about. Does it imply practical advice? If so the readers would get some very interesting and realistic advice ;)

Furthermore the URL gets a lot of hits via Google, Yahoo!. As far as search engine algorythms work, clear names are very helpful for an unknown brand. So a name that uses highly searched words (China, news, views, about, living or whatever) will ultimately work better as the name is usually - thanks to the < title > tag - the first group of words search engines recognise in the HTML.

If we want to find a new name then first let's consider who our audience is and what words they'll respond to best.

Have a play with this tool http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion/ to see what words people are currently using in association with China or whatever word you use. You can refine your query by clicking on any of the results. You'll note that 'china net news' for example gets 57 searches against 'living in china' on 199. 'China news' is much more popular (6399). But refine that to get the next most poular china news related searches and you get 'china news digest' (383) and 'china daily news' (112). 'China magazine' gets 44.

DESIGN.

The mock-up I'm working on - to give us a point of reference to input suggestions - is built using CSS as its backbone. I agree simplicity of design is great and the easier the site is to read and load the better.

FORUMS

As for fora, well the site could definitely use those, and if this is best place to do it, given that it is already established then the zine could direct users here to dicuss anything they've read or want to comment on in more detail. I see no problem with that.

[Guest andrea@t-salon]

Many thanks to Chairman Meow for a great post.

NAME

Let's stick with livinginchina.com since most of us like it and that you already own it.

DESIGN.

Yes, let's keep it simple and seasonal make-overs can take place when human resources permit. I hope it is based on weblog publishing technology as that would be the easiest to use from the contributors' point of view.

PHOTOGRAPHY & DESIGN.

The photo bank idea sounds good. I was thinking of setting aside a corner spot on the first page (top-left, top-right or top-middle) to feature photo of the month.

SECTIONS:

There are so many ways people can access china news already. Readers can always go to PRCNews.com for china news from the western press. Let's focus on what we can offer and others cannot. So I would say leave the News out, unless it is written by a contributor and cannot be found in major press outlets. This way China News don't "steal the thunder" from other content that we intend to focus on.

THE TEAM

I agreed and very much appreciated with what you said here:

There can be no room for egos here, just a collective spirit to promote the voices of people living in China. We may even get contributions from non-bloggers who simply want to get published.

I wouldn't mind being a feature / creative writing editor (the person who collects articles for publishing). But ideally, if human resources permit, it would be nice to have a rotating editors within each section. This allows new ideas to kick in every once in a while and even busy people can come join (by contributing once a month or three times a quarter.)

IMAGE

The style should be like a group blog - open and democratic, in addition to original, creative and perhaps insightful.

DISCUSSION / COMMENT OPTIONS

I actually favor the comments system that is used in weblogs as they don't required any registration. It's very convinient to talkback and see what others has to say about the article right away. On the other hand, discussion space like this one allows for deeper interactions and networking among like minded in a trust environment. The question is can we have both included? E.g. link to this forum for readers to network and chat among themselves and for relevant sections such as language & culture where a discussion thread on the same topic already exists?