放在眼里 (fangzai yanli) and 杀 (sha)

[Altair]

I have been working through a few "simple" stories in a little book of ancient Chinese war stories. I ran across a few passages I could not figure out and would appreciate some help.

The first is the following:

齐国大将鲍叔牙根本就不把鲁国军队放在眼里,他凭借精兵强将,向鲁国军队发动了进攻.

I have difficulty understanding what function 就 has and what exactly 放在眼里 means. The best translation I can come up with is:

"Grand Marshall (?) Bao Shuya gave hardly a glance at the Lu forces; and, relying on his crack troops and superior generals, launched an attack towards them."

Later in the story, the character 杀 ("sha1") is used in two sentences in a way I do not quite understand. The first sentence is:

鲁庄公一声令下,顿时战鼓齐鸣,旌旗飞舞,鲁国军队以迅雷不及掩耳之势,杀向齐军。 My guess at a translation is:

"As soon as Duke Zhuang of Lu gave the order, the drums sounded in unison and the Lu forces [struck out?] towards the Qi forces as quick and powerful as lightning."

The other sentence is:

没有多长时间，齐军被鲁军杀得溃不成军,大败而逃。My translation would be: "A short time later, the Qi army was [struck?] so hard that it was collapsed in rout, was badly defeated, and fled."

How does one translate 杀 "sha1" in these cases? Or more specifically, what exacly is the meaning of this character, rather than the appropriate translation?

[Claw]

就 typically indicates a followup statement, often as a consequent of something. In your sentence, it indicates that something occured or that there was a reason that caused 鲍叔牙 not to 把鲁国军队放在眼里. Generally the preceding sentence will give the reason, though often the reason could be implied (perhaps 鲍叔牙 knew his forces were superior).

In if-then statements, 就 signifies the "then."

My Chinese probably isn't good enough to give you a good answer to the rest of your questions.

[ananda]

齐国大将鲍叔牙根本就不把鲁国军队放在眼里,他凭借精兵强将,向鲁国军队发动了进攻.

I have difficulty understanding what function 就 has and what exactly 放在眼里 means. The best translation I can come up with is:

"Grand Marshall (?) Bao Shuya gave hardly a glance at the Lu forces; and, relying on his crack troops and superior generals, launched an attack towards them."

'就' here, its function is to strengthen the sentence, it could be omitted.

the meaning is 'Bao Shuya thoroughly looked down upon Lu forces'

Later in the story, the character 杀 ("sha1") is used in two sentences in a way I do not quite understand. The first sentence is:

鲁庄公一声令下,顿时战鼓齐鸣,旌旗飞舞,鲁国军队以迅雷不及掩耳之势,杀向齐军。 My guess at a translation is:

"As soon as Duke Zhuang of Lu gave the order, the drums sounded in unison and the Lu forces [struck out?] towards the Qi forces as quick and powerful as lightning."

'杀' here could be treated as 'attack, kill', Lu forces marched[charged?]

towards Qi forces quickly and would attack them. This sentence only

described the speed of Lu forces, so 'powerful' could be deleted.

The other sentence is:

没有多长时间，齐军被鲁军杀得溃不成军,大败而逃。My translation would be: "A short time later, the Qi army was [struck?] so hard that it was collapsed in rout, was badly defeated, and fled."

How does one translate 杀 "sha1" in these cases? Or more specifically, what exacly is the meaning of this character, rather than the appropriate translation?

A short time later, under the violently attack of the Lu forces, the Qi army

couldn't keep its lineup, and escaped in disorder.

'杀' here could be treated as 'fight, kill'. "齐军被鲁军杀得溃不成军" vs "他被

我打得鼻青脸肿". '杀''s basic meaning is 'kill', you feel it difficult, only

because the different expression of Chinese and English.

[Altair]

Thanks for the replies. I keep on forgetting that '就' may simply imply some sort of emphasis.

This sentence only described the speed of Lu forces, so 'powerful' could be deleted.

I thought that the word 势 implied some sort of momentum in this case and therefore that something beyond speed was involved. This word remains troublesome for me.

'杀''s basic meaning is 'kill', you feel it difficult, only

because the different expression of Chinese and English.

You are right. This is my whole issue. 杀向 is an impossible concept in English if I think of 杀 as "kill." You either kill someone or you don't, you cannot "kill toward a person."

Even in the plural, a phrase like "killed them" implies that they all died. As a result, one cannot say "killed them to the point that they could not keep their lineup. Perhaps the thought is that "killed so many that their forces collapsed."

[byjove]

杀 has to be followed by the complement 死 for it to be clear that the target is indeed lifeless. A good translation might be 'charge' or 'attack'.