Another freelancing question - but different...

[GregX999]

Does anyone know, what type of visa would be required for someone (an American) working in China, but ONLY having clients in the US? Therefore, not "really" doing business in China.

I'm thinking an L visa would be fine. I'd like to stay for 3-6 months, and I understand they issue L visas for up to 12 months. Do you have to show proof of funds or income? If they do, and they see that you intend to work (although only for U.S. clients), would they make you apply for a employment (Z) visa?

Also, I intend to study Chinese - but not as full-time study - so I assume I wouldn't apply for an X visa, right?

(I'm a freelance web-programmer and have clients in the US that I work for remotely - I wouldn't need to find Chinese clients.)

Thanks,

Greg

[phyrex]

I don't think you they'd give you a 6 months L visa if you haven't been to C before.

I think the easiest way would be to contact a Chinese school and book some (1on1?) lessons with them in exchange for them handling the visa stuff.

[gerri]

I'm not sure I remember all the types of visa, but the Z would be for employment within country, the L for visiting relatives and the like, the F for doing business... from what you describe, there are two types that I can imagine they'd give you (and so would any other country):

Most likely, a tourist visa, which has very limited duration of stay.

Or a student visa if, as suggested, you go through a school, which is probably recommendable if you'd like to stay in one place.

[GregX999]

Hey, thanks for the info!

For a student visa, you don't need to be enrolled full-time then? Just a language school for a few hours a day would do it?

I would like to stay in one place as a "home base" (perhaps in or near Shanghai) and travel around a bit from there from time to time (ie: weekend trips).

Greg

[Hüsker Dü]

Greg,

I came over on a 30-day tourist visa. Before it expired, I changed it to a 6-month F visa. I'm now on my 2nd, 6-month F visa. I attend private classes at a small school in Beijing.

This thread has more info about F visas.

As far as the type of work you will be doing, I can't answer about the legality of it, but I do know that it is difficult to access certain websites here.

Hope this helps.

[abcdefg]

For a student visa, you don't need to be enrolled full-time then? Just a language school for a few hours a day would do it?

Yep. That's right.

[Erbse]

Does anyone know, what type of visa would be required for someone (an American) working in China, but ONLY having clients in the US? Therefore, not "really" doing business in China.

I'm not a legal expert at all, but this same issue has been on my mind for a long time. Here are my thoughts.

The idea to have a business in one country and then, as the boss of that company, remote control it from the tourist destinations of the world, is rather new. I've wondered about this for quite a while already and my only conclusion is, 99% of all visa regulations all over the world do not address this situation properly.

Currently I'm in Germany and I have a friend from a country outside the EU, he is currently in Germany as well. He doesn't do any business in Germany, but he does remote control his business, located outside the EU, from Germany. He told me there is no simple way to stay in Germany if he just remote controls his company from here. The government told him to open and register at least some kind of office here and do all this paperwork. So he decided to "study" in Germany.

In the case of China I think the official way would be to set up a whole subbranch of your company in China (in form of a wfoe) and then get a Z visa, to be in line with the regulations. However this won't be helpful for the business at all, in fact it is expensive. Why would I want to do so? The solution is probably stay low key and have a L (travel) or X (study) visa. I guess F raises more suspicions than it solves if you get to many F in a row.

If you want a proper solution wait a few decades until law has caught up with your lifestyle.

[Hüsker Dü]

I guess F raises more suspicions than it solves if you get to many F in a row.

Why? I'm in the middle of my 2nd, six-month, multiple entry F visa. The visa agent in Beijing said to come back before it expires in July and he can issue me a new one.

[Erbse]

not 2, I'm thinking about 10 in a row without any breaks in between.

[GregX999]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'll look into both the student visa route (as I want to take language lessons anyway) as well as the F visa route (since I think I'd prefer to take lessons from a tutor (or tutors) rather than a school - maybe...)

So for an F visa, do you need to be "invited" by a Chinese company? From this site: http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/hzqz/zgqz/t84247.htm

Visa Notifications Form from an authorized Chinese Unit, or invitation letters from the host company, meeting or exhibition organizers in China, or an introduction letter from applicant's US company, etc.

What's "an authorized Chinese Unit"?

I get the impression that dealing with visa agents in China is generally low-pressure and that they are quite friendly. Is this true? Compared to visa issues with some other countries where it's like walking on broken glass (that I've read about anyway). I spent some time in Argentina and it was pretty low-pressure there as well.

HuskerDu - I'm just curious, what do you do? As in... why did you need/how did you qualify for an F visa?

Thanks!

Greg

[Erbse]

you could sign up for a cheap school. Signing up doesn't mean you have to show up for class. As long as you pay your fees they will happily support your student visa.

[Hüsker Dü]

Greg,

I'm studying at a small private school. Not sure they provide student visas. Contact this visa agency in Beijing. I didn't need any formal letters.

Seems like the definition of a F visa is pretty open.

[GregX999]

Hüsker Dü - Thanks, I'll check them out.

[wang]

@erbs The laws already address this "loop" hole for many years. While today we have a greater amount of control and ability to be "virtual" many people forget the days of letters? People for years have lived abroad and controlled or ran their companies from abroad. From the government stand point it all depends on where your money comes from and where it goes. So if you are living in china and earn money abroad and your permanate location is here in china, they have a right to collect tax on that. However since money normally earned in the states or a foreign country is still taxed locally in that country it usually is not taxed in the foreign country unless it reaches a certain amount. Thus the IRS has a Tax treaty agreement with other country on the "world wide income" of its citizens. I imagine that various other countries have the same thing. From my understanding it is like $80,000US before they start to care.