Rosetta Stone

[Lilitu]

I'm starting Chinese, using Rosetta Stone as my first tool. When I finish all three parts of Rosetta Stone what level should I expect to be at? Would I be able to start the second NPCR textbook or would I still be on the first books level?

[imron]

If your goal is to get to NPCR 2 level, probably your best bet is to work through NPCR 1.

[Lilitu]

I thought Rosetta Stone would be better for starting because of the voice recognition, but I cross posted on the How-To-Learn-Any-Language forums and it seems all of the world's experienced language community is against Rosetta Stone.

[knadolny]

Sorry can't answer your question, but on this note, I'm curious what people think of Rosetta Stone versus some of the podcasting services that are out there like Chinesepod and PopupChinese. Are they too different to compare? What method do you like better?

I've taken a liking to these podcasting services and think they are great. (I'm using a Japanese service at the moment now)

[renzhe]

Rosetta Stone has been discussed here many times.

The main problem with methods like Rosetta Stone is that they hardly teach you anything. You won't be fluent when you finish it, nor will you have a decent vocabulary. Same goes for Pimsleur.

If your goal is to really learn a language, you'll need to use other methods anyway.

[daofeishi]

I'm not sure if there's any point to starting another Rosetta Stone discussion. There are already plenty of them on the forum. But to toss my two cents in, I'd say save the money and go for a more all-round program. Get a real text-book, find a pod-cast with useful content and if possible, get some native-speaker contact. I've tried Rosetta Stone but quit pretty fast as it seemed to be more like a game of "Simon" than language learning. Rosetta Stone has very little real content, and I think you will find that there are other methods through which you will learn more Chinese, faster. I don't even think Rosetta Stone fares well as a complement to other tools, just because of the sheer inefficiency of the method (not to mention the price!). Although it's not a scientific study, of all the people I know who have learned Chinese to a high level, none have used Rosetta Stone. Among the people I know who have given up on learning it, however...

Edited March 22, 2010 at 12:36 PM by daofeishi

[daveonhols]

I tried it, Rosetta Stone is seriously rubbish haha!!

However I did actually have success with Pimsleur, I felt that I could take it in and make progress and remember what I had studied. The problem with Pimsleur is that it doesn't teach you the best part of Chinese, that is the characters!! The other problem with Pimsleur is that it is temping to "cheat", ie "oh I'll just do it in my head" etc. Unfortunately that doesn't work so well ...

[Lilitu]

Rosetta Stone has been discussed here many times.

I did read through the forums before posting, but a lot of the posts about Rosetta Stone were from version 2, I believe. I tried version 2, and I know it it was horrid, but I thought version 3 was a huge improvement. Apparently I was wrong.

. Although it's not a scientific study, of all the people I know who have learned Chinese to a high level, none have used Rosetta Stone. Among the people I know who have given up on learning it, however...

That's a good way to put it. So textbook, podcast, and native speaker?

From what I've read here NPCR seems to be well loved. CSL pod is mentioned here, and it's free. And for a native speaker I could hopefully find a language buddy on Livemocha, as I don't have access to any native speakers in person. Would all that work for learning?

[Bob161]

"I did read through the forums before posting, but a lot of the posts about Rosetta Stone were from version 2, I believe. I tried version 2, and I know it it was horrid, but I thought version 3 was a huge improvement. Apparently I was wrong."

I've got access to both version 2 and 3, and I must say 3 is a huge improvement. Due to my work ethic (or lack thereof) I have a hard time with rosetta stone V3, but when I use it, I see myself making pretty decent gains. I will run through the lesson with pinyin+hanzi, then just hanzi and I find myself able to recognize the hanzi RS is using. But then, I'm also a big fan of immersion learning, which is difficult to get just from a podcast. I learned what little spanish I know while working at a mexican joint. Since all the little old ladies only spoke spanish I found myself doing exactly what RS does. Pointing at stuff and saying "como se dice...?" so I could learn to ask them for what ever I needed in spanish.

Edited March 23, 2010 at 01:32 AM by Bob161
forgot the quote marks :)

[wrbt]

Also there is lingq, here: http://www.lingq.com/

What they do is have online content with audio (some content is their stuff, others gleaned from the web) and some tools that let you track vocabulary words you've learned or need to learn. It is one of those free for the basics, pay for additional stuff type deals.

Solid.

[XiaoXi]

Sorry can't answer your question, but on this note, I'm curious what people think of Rosetta Stone versus some of the podcasting services that are out there like Chinesepod and PopupChinese. Are they too different to compare? What method do you like better?

Its certainly better than Chinesepod. Chinesepod is useful if you're Chinese and want to learn English but not advisable to try the other way around. Rosetta is a decent method albeit not that exciting. Its unique at least in that its 'language-less' (other than the target language of course) which is certainly the most desirable method to learn a language.

[Herbert]

I have RS and quickly tired of it for many reasons already mentioned. Having said that, I was learning something from it.

I realized that if I invest much time in RS I would be able to converse by pointing at animals and other things and naming them. I could be real good at going to the airport, pointing at a big thing with wings and telling everyone what it is. Or if someone is on top of or below it. RS just wasn't working for my learning style at the beginner level.

Chinese person: 早上好

Me: 一只狗

You can see my dilemma.

At some point down the road in my learning I will go back to RS and crunch through just to pick up/reinforce vocab and sentence structure and practice hanzi. I can see learning much from it after I already have the basics nailed down and can converse about standard things on a daily basis.

But honestly, I learned more from half a dozen 'Absolute Beginner' podcasts from PopupChinese.

I've listened to some of the free Chinesepod lessons on the iPod app as well.

Echo vs Jenny. Both teaching crews are terrific. The lesson pace at PopupChinese seems a little better suited to my learning style. Plus, anyone who quotes The Donger from Sixteen Candles has automatically earned my devotion.

Although, this weekend I nailed down the Chinesepod lesson Zhong Wen. I'm on the verge of springing my new language study on the favorite local Chinese take out restaurant. I need to be ready for that. (Says I with the realization that I'm not going to try to wait until I'm really ready for it.)

All of that pales in comparison to my favorite and most effective method of learning Chinese. Skype + Chinese friend in ShenZhen with a degree in English.

[weregoingunion]

Chinese person: 早上好

Me: 一只狗

You can see my dilemma.

No, I can't see your dilemma. What are you talking about?

I think Rosetta Stone is a great way to get the basic "sound" of a language into your head and learn some basic vocabulary. I can't speak for the effectiveness of completing multiple levels but I have used the first few lessons to get a basic feel for a couple languages.

It should help you *a lot* with pronunciation/listening if the only exposure you have to the language otherwise is all on books. But don't expect a lot from it and certainly don't blow $100's of dollars on that software if you haven't already.

[knadolny]

No, I can't see your dilemma. What are you talking about?

Good. I'm glad I am not the only one who had no idea what he was talking about. Does this have something to do with the way Rosetta Stone is laid or what?

[Gharial]

I think Herbert was humorously suggesting that RS teaches you how to say 'A dog' before you even learn how to reply to 'Morning!'. But not having ever used RS myself I can't be sure how inflexible its order/choice of practice really is!

[weregoingunion]

Haha, sorry to you Herbert for missing something so obvious the first time, but I really was confused until Gharial clarified. I now see your point. But as I said before, use RS alongside *many* other study methods. But I do stand by what I said earlier that it CAN be helpful listening to the audio to get an idea of how the language sounds, but it certainly won't help in a lot of other important areas.

I still remember EXACTLY how it sounded the first time I heard 一个女孩子和一个女人 (yi1 ge4 nv3 hai3zi3 he2 yi1 ge5 nv3ren2) and this is before I knew any Chinese and just went through a FEW slides before giving up. Those simple phrases and vocab WILL get ingrained in your head and I guess that does say something about the software.

I suggest using it in pinyin to start and only use the Chinese characters to go back and review some time after you get grounded in the basic characters, otherwise I'm sure that just staring at them will be useless and probably WON'T just seep into the back of your mind like the audio will.

(I hope that pinyin was typed correctly because I always hate it out.)

[Herbert]

Gharial is correct.

Actually, I decided that you had a good point in stating that you had no idea what i was talking about. That statement, read literally does not make any sense. I have a bad habit of attempting to communicate things that I find amusing. It rarely works.

I could have set it up better by stating that I communicate with Chinese people almost daily. I needed to get some basic groundwork in daily greetings and such. I poked around RS for a bit trying to find that lesson. Maybe it is there but that's when I started seeking to expand into other methods of learning.

I appreciate your advice for approaching the RS usage from a different angle. I will plan to do that and ultimately will get everything it has to offer.

[ilprincipe]

I throw in my 2cents point of view

I think Rosetta Stone is a very good tool, probably one of the best, especially for learning Chinese. Provided that you know how to use it and exploit its full potential and you combine it with some 1to1 tutoring

I started studying on RS by myself, completed the first disc (1), up to lesson 1, I believe and when I came to China I was put straight on a Level 3 course at University. So, it did help a lot.

These are the things you should do:

Do ALL Exercises for all types of tests (listening, reading, listening and reading, writing, etc..etc..), at least until you score 100%. then, over time, go back to older lesson and re-do the exercises (if you if find it boring, it means you have learnt and you can finish them quickly, so don't worry)

Write up a list of ALL words you learn, along the way. Write on a Word document all text of all lessons you have studied. Print out both documents:

Choose a clever Chinese teacher, hand him/her out the list of words and the text and ask to create new random sentences using ONLY words you have learn and ONLY grammar you have learn (she should be able to figure it out from the text). NO NEW MATERIAL!!! (for example, the teacher will ask you how to say "the plane is under the table" or "the elephant is jumping" - those you have used RS, know what I am talking about...This random test - apparently with no logic - is KEY because it will help your listening comprehension, grammar, away from pure guessing the meaning or using you memory. You will actually have to think.

Ask your tutor to test you from English to Chinese and vice-versa.

I did it and did wonder for me.

by the way, what is Rosetta 3? did they add a new disc (I only had 2)

[wrbt]

At some point down the road in my learning I will go back to RS and crunch through just to pick up/reinforce vocab and sentence structure and practice hanzi. I can see learning much from it after I already have the basics nailed down and can converse about standard things on a daily basis.

I predict that when you get further down the road the last thing you'll want to do is RS, you'll find a good textbook with audio to listen to is far more efficient.