Good resource to learn pronunciation -- I'm giving up on Rosetta stone

[usaar333]

Hi all, I've been using Rosetta Stone for 2 months or so and I am looking to switch to a better solution (ideally software) to learn pronunciation. My issues with Rosetta Stone are the following:

-There is no global dictionary. I really want to try getting each word correct (tones and all), but there is no easy way to do this

-Extremely poor speaking lessons. I'm on unit 2, and I realized Rosetta Stone still has not really taught tones explicitly. Had I not already known about them (from a mix of friends and lingt), I have no idea how I could have gotten this far.

It also doesn't explain how to pronounce words. 'r' seems to be some hybrid of r and j but after trying hundreds of times I don't know how to say it. The same is true for 'sh' in shao.

-Very poor speech recognition - It has way too many false acceptances which are somewhat training me wrong (I'm on highest difficulty).

-Stops recording too early. To get tones correct, I still need to pause for a very brief moment to think about what my starting frequency will be. However, Rosetta simply aborts the sentence, preventing me from gradually reducing my rest period.

-Very poor feedback - My biggest issue of all. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong with some words. I repeat words like 'zhe' over and over and as far as i can tell I just randomly get it and randomly don't. It fails to really say how you are pronouncing it wrong - I want to know what corrections I need to do with my tongue, mouth, frequency, etc. to say the words right.

Does anyone know of a better tool I can use to get my speaking down?

[renzhe]

I don't think that there is software that can solve your problems. At least the pronunciation issues you mention are common to many learners (pronunciation of 'r' and 'zhe', for example).

Your best bet would be to get a native speaker (preferably one who teaches) and go through the proper tongue and lip positions for the problematic sounds. It took me quite a while before I got "zhe" down, and like you said, I had no idea why it was right sometimes and wrong other times. Only after very specific hints and feedback from a native speaker did I get it down.

But I wouldn't stress over it too much, nobody had perfect pronunciation after 2 months. As long as you're improving and keeping a close eye on it, and aren't making terrible mistakes.

[Cactus543]

Try using Pimsleur.. It helped me get my pronunciation down.

http://www.nciku.com is also pretty useful for individual character pronunciations..

[Groat]

Here is how I learned initials:

AT first I studied at a uni with a native teacher. Once a week and that stuff, didn't learn squat. I had an idea of some of the sounds, as I have a pretty good ear naturally to distinguish them, but had no idea how to say them really. These courses I took in 2002-3.

Last year I started to study Chinese again, and decided to get the initials right from the beginning. At first I tried to listen to them, but that didn't really work out. I had huge troubles differentiating the zh, ch, j, q and all those (r was easy for me though). I got frustrated and decided to approach the issue analytically. Lo and behold I discovered all the necessary stuff in wikipedia. It has all the sounds and very thorough explanations on how to position your tongue. After I gained the knowledge from there I just practiced by listening and repeating them a few times, separately and all in a row. In the summer when I had the chance to practice with a native teacher, she commented that my pronunciation was very standard with the initials (but she also really scolded me for my crappy crappy tones). All the things you can learn from wikipedia!

You can find the correct tongue positions here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin#Initials

The table is a bit 'technical', but getting past it is pretty easy if you just clicky clicky the links and look at all the pretty pictures.

But yeah, if you don't have a native teacher at your disposal, that is the next best thing. Going them over with a native teacher afterwards would be pretty important though.

For tones, you'll need another strategy.

[arreke]

Your best bet would be to get a native speaker (preferably one who teaches) and go through the proper tongue and lip positions for the problematic sounds. It took me quite a while before I got "zhe" down, and like you said, I had no idea why it was right sometimes and wrong other times. Only after very specific hints and feedback from a native speaker did I get it down.

Could you recommend some good online teachers or teachers located in Beijing, who are not boring and know how to teach ?

[roddy]

Arreke, if a topic is five years old and your question isn't really relevant to the title, you'll probably get better answers by just starting a new one. 

[Qiaonansen]

I could help you via Skype. I can get my students pronouncing "cong" and "ren" correctly on day 1.

 

Alternatively, tell me here which initials you are having difficulty pronouncing, and I can make videos explaining how to pronounce them and post them online.