Kunming Living Costs and Life in General

[g1izmo]

Hey

Im going to Kunming soon for 6 months to learn chinese, not quite sure on how many hours per weekday ill be studying but at least 2 with a couple of private sessions thrown in per week (~15 hrs per week + private hanzi study).

I want to know about the composition/typical nationality of the expat community in Kunming and is there a place where most hang out? I hear mixed things about Kunming from really interesting to dull.

I nearly choose to go to Harbin for a similar period of study but choose not to because I thought Kunming would be more interesting and abit cheaper - right? The only draw back is that the Mandarin in Harbin would be more what im used to having studied Chinese in Beijing for 2 months already...

I wont die of boredom in Kunming will I??

Oh yeh, does Kunming have a metro or is it all buses?

Thanks.

R

[GladOn]

hi g1izmo

i dont think you will die of boredom in Kunming.

in kunming you have the famous Wenlinjie which is the area where the foreigners usually hang up. there are bars and restaurant serving western food. no only here but this is the biggest spot.

you will find also discos where you canhang up and find lots of foreigners to have fun with (or chinese also)

also kunming is a nice location to start from if you want to discover a bit of yunnan or even thailande, vietnam ect ... it'snot so far and there are a lot of buses and plane connection.

yunnan is the richest region interm of minorites, so here you will see a lot of cultural ... if you travel in small towns around kunming, in yunnan.

i studied chinese there for one year and i was not disappointed. i had the chance to find a very good place to study chinese, which is not so easy to find after all

[kongli]

Hey!

I studied in Kunming for around 5 months. I have been to many cities in China and none of them (except maybe for chengdu) have been as awesome.

Kunming is a really chill place. the people there are on kind of a different level than the rest of China. The pace of the city is a bit slower and more relaxed. Also, as I am sure you have heard, the weather is absolutely amazing!

Okay so first about the clubs/nightlife

No, it does not have huge giant clubs like mix and that other one in Beijing. But it does have a club district by the name of kengdu (or something similar to that, its been a while). The clubs there are like any other 'dance' clubs in China. Meaning: the music sucks, is way too loud and people don't really dance, more just sit around tables drinking.

As you can tell I am not a huge fan of these types of clubs but if you want to get really sloshed and meet some women, it is a good place to go. Within Kengdu there is a bar called 'top one' this is actually a pretty chill place. Good music and DJing and it has an outside rooftop area that is very nice to hang out at. Also has a pool table and an actual dance area.

Personally, I am more of a bar person. The ones I recommend you check out are 'Chapter One' and 'Speak Easy'. Both rather nice places to get some drinks and (at the latter) do a little dancing. My favorite bar has to be 'Half Way house' it is a bit hard to find so you will probably have to ask around. It is very chill and (unlike any other place in China) actually has some good German beers. Somewhat of a gay crowd at this bar to, not my thing personally, but an interesting place for people watching. Also this bar has some pretty good music. plays a lot of pretty good hip hop and regea.

Things tend to be a bit cheaper in Kunming than other places in China. However I have heard that housing (like everywhere else in China) has gone up in the past years. I think their may be some posts on this as well.

about the ethnic minority question, yes there are much more minorities in kunming than almost any other place in China. In Kunming I have met daizu,baizu,hannizu,yizu,huizu etc. You notice a lot more diversity on the streets in the way people carry themselves and the different dialects spoken. Also Kunming has a couple of amazing Daizu restaurants that you can check out. Forgot the exact locations but ask around and you will find them.

As far at the 'standard' mandarin thing goes, I found the mandarin in Kunming to be a little easier to understand than beijing. They talk a little faster and a bit more rhythmically, which at least for me, is easier to pick up on than the slow pirate accents of beijing people. However Kunming does have its own dialect that most everyone speaks, you will hear this a lot in bars and restaurants. I would suggest just making friends with students on whatever college campus you are studying. usually they are not from Kunming and all communicate using excellent mandarin.

In general i felt a lot more motivated to study in Kunming and interacting with people was a lot easier. Ultimately this made learning the language much easier as well.

HOWEVER, one problem that I now have from studying in the south is my 'n' and 'ng' sounds, sound very similar and it is a bit harder for me to tell the difference. Reason being that southern people don't really pronounce the difference either. Also beware of the blurring of 'r' and 'L'. Your ear with get used to it though and it will probably help in the long run when you need to talk to people really bad mandarin. hehe.

Hope this helps. have fun! You made a great choice!

[Ed Log]

I am a Kunming fan. I have been to many many Chinese cities and the pace of life and open attitude in Kunming is special.

The City is as ugly as most Chinese cities but the transport planners have invited a HK company to run some of the buses which improves the standards and implemented a Bus Rapid Transit system that works quite well.

Yunnan province should keep you busy

[abcdefg]

Oh yeh, does Kunming have a metro or is it all buses?

No metro here yet, though one is on the drawing board. Plenty of busses so you can still get where you're going.

I want to know about the composition/typical nationality of the expat community in Kunming and is there a place where most hang out? I hear mixed things about Kunming from really interesting to dull.

If you want to get the most from Kunming, or anywhere else in China for that matter, stay away from the expat scene. At least that's my opinion.

[putonghua73]

Good lord! 3rd night in Kunming and agreed to go with my fellow students to KTV for Karoke and then to David 1855 (or whatever it is called).

I lasted 15 minutes in the latter - no drinks and 2 pictures taken with some Chinese women - before I couldn't control the compulsion to leave. Fortunately, one of my Chinese teachers and my female Brit student also wanted to leave.

Dreadful; truly dreadful.

Fortunately, I'm not here for the nightlife - but here to improve my Chinese with 1-2-1 tuition and live in a clean, relatively unpolluted, green and chilled city. I'm much more of a bar person, and will have to check out some of Kongli's recommendations.

Desperately need to head to Green Lake Park tomorrow, relax and start my homework for the weekend. Hopefully, meet some Chinese people (preferably mid-late 30s non-smoking Chinese woman) for language exchange / activity partners.

Right, need to check tomorrow if Carrefour (or equivalent) sell Aerobies.

Cheers!

[kongli]

hehehe, not sure if you have been to other cities in China but KTV is pretty much the same everywhere.....horrible. It can be bearable and (dare I say it) fun if you get a bunch of really good friends and rent your own little room. But yes, generally speaking KTV makes me want to shoot myself. Especially so many people think they are singing well, when in actuality it is just super horrible. Perhaps, made even worse by the fact that they are singing over the actual singer!

I think you will really love green lake. But I suggest going at night. Their are a ton of people during the day and if one person sees you studying Chinese they will probably start to crowd around you like a circus animal (my experience at least), but night time their are very few people and usually various musicians come from the surrounding neighborhood to play traditional musical instruments and sing. Quite lovely actually. I suggest going around 9-10.

[putonghua73]

I think you will really love green lake. But I suggest going at night. Their are a ton of people during the day and if one person sees you studying Chinese they will probably start to crowd around you like a circus animal (my experience at least), but night time their are very few people and usually various musicians come from the surrounding neighborhood to play traditional musical instruments and sing. Quite lovely actually. I suggest going around 9-10.

Thanks for the recommendation, Kongli. Coming from London, I cannot survive without parks as I need somewhere to relax, unwind and feel human [in London]. I plan to go both during the day and at night - since I live on 东风东路 it isn't a terribly long walk and I enjoy walking.

Agreed that karoke in particular makes me want to shoot myself. Despite my protestations about Kunming nightlife (or my snapshot) it seems pretty innocent which is a good thing. Also, my female Brit student / friend commented that she feels safe going alone, and getting a taxi by herself - unlike the UK.

It's 10:30 ish, I still haven't began to ready, and I've just remembered that I signed up for an optional school visit (half a dozen of us) to a Chinese tea-house this afternoon! At this rate, I'll make it to Carrefour (aerobie and park blanket) and that's it! Looks like Green Lake Park this evening it is!

Cheers!

[putonghua73]

I feel (no, I AM!) like an idiot. My jacket was stolen last night from Ba Bi Club (or whatever it was called in Kundu because I stupidly took it off and left it on a stool to be stolen.

We (a Chilean guy at my school) and myself had been to the Hump bar, met some girls he knew, then headed to David1855 dancing to 80s electro, then headed to Ba Bi club.

The sorry, tawdry tale has been posted on GoKunming.com in the hope that my jacket was taken accidentally.

I did prior to last night's tawdry events, go to Green Lake Park with an Indonesian girl from my school - whom I had to wake this morning for assistance (she's been ever so lovely in helping me - despite waking her up at 05:30 in the morning, babbling incoherently at her). Different to what I expected - where's the actual Park i.e. grass? Lots of people milling about in the evening, and quite a number of couples sitting by the lake on the benches grabbing some private, intimate time as it's so dark you cannot recognise anyone!

I need to explore much more of the city because I need some open, green spaces so need to visit Dianchi Lake and the World Horti-Expo Garden in 盘龙区.

I also need to freshen up as I'm a bleary-eyed wretch, and the school's owner is on her way to see me to see what can be done about stolen jacket, lost keys, lost PSB paper, etc. This is going to be extremely humbling when the whole, sorry, tawdry tale comes out .. especially the whole affair resulted because I was chasing the wrong women (the right woman was the one I was talking to earlier, who helped me try and find my jacket by asking the staff to search 'lost and found').

Couldn't get a phone number because my phones were in my jacket pocket that was stolen. Epic fail all round =/

That aside, I love this city! (and, let's be honest, the Chinese women - need to meet a nice, stable mid 30s non-smoking woman. Chasing women in clubs leads to posting sorry-assed tales of woe on Chinese web-forums).

Cheers!

P.s. I have a stack of homework to do that my 老师 set me as I promised her I wasn;t going out at the weekend!

[abcdefg]

The learning curve can be steep.

[Meng Lelan]

need to meet a nice, stable mid 30s non-smoking woman.

Women in China smoke now? Blah.

[black dragon]

Please don't make up stories again. This story seems not wonderful.

[abcdefg]

Hopefully meet ... mid-late 30s non-smoking Chinese woman

I would humbly suggest that a noisy, smoky bar in Kundu would be one of the least likely places to meet such a potential companion.

[putonghua73]

Please don't make up stories again. This story seems not wonderful

This happens most cities anywhere in the world (with the possible exception of Japan) and is less a reflection on Kunming - in case you mistakenly thought I was denigrating Chinese people - than it is on the need to becareful with one's belongings anywhere, period. Especially when inebriated in a club.

I would humbly suggest that a noisy, smoky bar in Kundu would be one of the least likely places to meet such a potential companion

As in so many things, you are correct, sir! I unfortunately, have been in Kunming less than a week, and so spent my first weekend socialising with some of my fellow Keats' students - tawdry weekend - in and around Kundu's bars and clubs.

Talking with my language exchange partner / activity partner on IM right now, and she is ridiculing me because - as she says - " ha ha that is what foreigner like, kundu, green lake, wenlin jie".

Damn! She just listed my weekend's activities =/

Any recommendations on anything that does NOT involve the above, please? My normal thing in London is parks as I love green spaces. Unfortunately, Kunming does not seem to have abundant green spaces. I'm thinking thinking World Horti-Expo Gardens, Dianchi Lake, Baini Shan and Anning (weekends only).

Also, any places that have message boards / notices to meet Chinese people i.e. language exchange / activities besides GoKunming.com? Do any cafes have any message boards / notices? I'd really like to meet and make Chinese friends (preferably late 20s to late 30s) that does not involve drunken conversations in Kundu, having one's picture taken with random women.

Thanks people!

[abcdefg]

Any recommendations on anything that does NOT involve the above, please? My normal thing in London is parks as I love green spaces. Unfortunately, Kunming does not seem to have abundant green spaces. I'm thinking thinking World Horti-Expo Gardens, Dianchi Lake, Baini Shan and Anning (weekends only).

Kunming does have some smaller parks such as Hei Long Tang and Da Guan Lou that are used more by locals than by visitors. Some locals like Xi Shan and go there often to explore different parts. Unfortunately, so far as I know, none of Kunming's parks have vast well manicured green spaces such as those in London.

The Expo Garden is quite nice, but admission is expensive. The campus of Yunnan Daxue is good for a stroll. Currently only grad students study there (all the undergraduates have been moved way south to a secondary campus at Chengong) so you might even meet some more mature Chinese who are doing advanced degrees there. Try the library.

Also, any places that have message boards / notices to meet Chinese people i.e. language exchange / activities besides GoKunming.com? Do any cafes have any message boards / notices? I'd really like to meet and make Chinese friends (preferably late 20s to late 30s) that does not involve drunken conversations in Kundu, having one's picture taken with random women.

I have heard that some of the cafes on Wenlin Jie have bulletin boards where one can post or read personal announcements.

[putonghua73]

Unfortunately, so far as I know, none of Kunming's parks have vast well manicured green spaces such as those in London

I am quite spoilt in London in that regard. Yet there are a number of places to visit just outside Kunming, plus all of the other destinations in Yunnan. If I have time, I'd like to visit 没梅里雪山 - but that's a fair distance and I really hate altitude sickness.

I have an invite to Anning, so am looking forward to visiting one weekend soon. My activity partner, whom I'm meeting in about an hour, has said she'll show me around some of the larger parks that she knows (maybe outside Kunming) when we both have time.

I'll check out the notice boards in some of the cafes on Wenli jie.

I'll also ask her (and do some online research) if there are any hiking routes in the vicinity. When I say 'hike' I mean linen trousers and trainers style - not hiking boots. Mind you, I did hike through 虎跳峡 in a pair of cream linen trousers and trainers!

Thanks for your suggestions, abcdefg - appreciate your time, as always.

Cheers!

[abcdefg]

I have an invite to Anning, so am looking forward to visiting one weekend soon.

Anning is a pleasant overnight or weekend trip, especially if you like hot springs. Take the inter-city bus from the Xiao Xi Men 小西门 station. One way ticket costs 6 RMB and the trip takes a little under an hour. I think it's bus number 17. You will need to ask at the ticket window to be sure. They run every 15 minutes or so during most times of day.

A local Chinese "activity and language" partner is an excellent idea. That should help a lot.

[putonghua73]

A local Chinese "activity and language" partner is an excellent idea. That should help a lot

Agreed. As you stated in an earlier post that I agreed with, whilst socialising with my fellow Keats students is good for developing friendships, I really want to avoid the ex-pat scene here i.e. spending all weekend in Kundu. Also, there's a nasty underbelly to that whole scene with a certain type taking advantage of local generosity and drinking for 'free' (on someone else's account) all night.

My moral compass won't allow me to freeload, and after paying 100 kuai (!) for 2 bottles of beer in David1855, it became obvious clubbing can be very expensive if (1) you are not freeloading, and (2) don't particular wish to buy beer / whiskey (cannot stand the stuff) for 30 people when there are between 2-4 of you.

Whilst I cannot categorically say I won't go to Kundu (or surrounding areas) - as I do like bars - I will not make it a habit.

I've met two people on GoKunming.com - one of whom I have been corresponding for over 6 weeks, and finally met her last night. She picked me up and drove me to Dianchi Lake, and we're going to play badminton together this week. She's not good for my study schedule as I spend half the morning on MSN talking to her! She is also going to pick me up on her scooter (which she drives locally - otherwise she takes her car) from the bus station at Dianchi Lake later this week, so I have an opportunity to go 'local' i.e.sit on the back of scooter in a nonchalant fashion, fuss with my hair, make a call on my mobile, etc ;)

The other girl lives in Anning, and I should be seeing her Friday night.

Just need another person who actually lives vaguely near me, rather than a 45 min - 1 hour bus journey.

Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated.

Cheers

[vexed]

That's a good idea. How did you find / approach people to be your local Chinese "activity and language" partner? I'm interested in seeing the 'real' Kunming from a local perspective.

[putonghua73]

I used GoKunming.com 'language exchange' / 'Friendship' section. Whilst some may claim there is no discernible difference because most are glorified dating adverts (I have no issue with dating), there are occasional genuine adverts.

I've spent time on Gumtree in the UK, hence can read between the lines.

I'm also going to follow abcdefg's advice and see if the cafes on Wenlie Jie have notice-boards and/or ask the owners if they can provide pointers in finding somewhere that offers 'Language Exchange' / 'Friendship'.

I will be playing Badminton and Tennis with one (meeting her again tomorrow evening), and a language exchange with another, whom I am meeting on Friday evening (waiting for her to confirm).

Cheers!