号 as 'ordinal'?

[Gharial]

MBDG defines 号 hao4 as 'day of a month', '(suffix used after) name of a ship', and 'number (ordinal)', and I was wondering if anyone else finds that last definition there a bit confusing or unclear.

I mean, for example, 五号楼 isn't given as 'The fifth/Fifth building' (ordinal in English at least) but rather 'Building No.5' (cardinal? In both languages?) in the Oxford/Concise dictionary, and the first sense that MBDG defines (that 'day of a month') doesn't mention 'ordinal' at all (but rather only implies it in the "date" meaning most people would take from this 'day of a month' definition), even though dates are, at least in English, pretty "ordinal".

I guess I am just interested in how dictionaries generally define things (and relatedly, questions of "best" definitions, and how terminology is applied between differing languages).

Edited March 24, 2010 at 11:54 PM by Gharial

[trien27]

号 as the last definition, it's "cardinal" not "ordinal"! To represent "ordinal", you use 第 before the number, not 号 after the number.

号 after the number = cardinal

第 before the number = ordinal

五号楼 = cardinal = Building No. 5: 五号 = No. 5

第五栋楼 = ordinal = The Fifth Building: 第五 =[The] fifth

*Calendar:

五号 / 五日 = cardinal in Chinese (五号 = "[Day] No. 5" of any month; 五日 = Day [No.] 5), but it's ordinal in English ["Fifth day" of a certain month].

You have just mixed up the definitions of "cardinal" vs "ordinal" in Chinese.

why the MBDG ordinal label?

Maybe it's just a little careless mistake. Dictionary editors have so much to do, they were probably just tired at the end of the day.

Edited March 25, 2010 at 02:57 AM by trien27

[Gharial]

号 as the last definition, it's "cardinal" not "ordinal"! To represent "ordinal", you use 第 before the number, not 号 after the number.

号 after the number = cardinal

第 before the number = ordinal

五号楼 = cardinal = Building No. 5: 五号 = No. 5

第五栋楼 = ordinal = The Fifth Building: 第五 =[The] fifth

Indeed, Trien 27! I agree with (and was aware of, by the way) all the facts and reasoning that you're providing here, which is precisely why I was expressing reservations about MBDG's labelling of "ordinal" in that last definition!! (I mean, if we are talking about cardinals in both languages, why the MBDG ordinal label?!). And which is why I like the fact that MBDG avoided any possible head-scratching over the first, 'day of a month' definition by not adding unnecessary bracketed labels to it.

Edited March 25, 2010 at 02:58 AM by Gharial

[Gharial]

Maybe it's just a little careless mistake. Dictionary editors have so much to do, they were probably just tired at the end of the day.

Yes, that could be it, and the fact that it's bracketed implies that it was only ever a tentative addition...but "at the end of the day", dictionaries have to be as explicit as possible, so any wooly wordings have to either be polished and/or expanded until sufficiently clear, or simply cut! :twisted: