Pronouncing chūqu

[ocrtech]

I was listening to some audio today and noticed that the "qu" in chūqu is pronounced with a trailing ee (like knee) sound whereas "qu" on its own seems to be pronounced with a oo (like moo) sound. Is this common or did I just run across two different accents from two different speakers?

[Hofmann]

If it is as you describe, the speakers mispronounced or you heard wrong. The vowel is this.

[edelweis]

Although "qu" is written with "u", it really has the ü sound, as Hofmann explained.

Have a look at a pinyin syllable table (there should be one in your textbook, else have a look at this wikipedia page with pinyin table).

qu is in the same category as yu, nü, lü, ju, xu : all end with the ü vowel.

The thing is that n and l can also be combined with the u vowel, so they require the umlaut (double dot) on top of ü to indicate the ü sound.

Whereas y, j, x, q can't be combined with the u sound. So the umlaut is superfluous: if you see yu, ju, xu, qu, you know it is the ü vowel, it can't be the u vowel.

[Shi Tong]

Are you saying that you want to go out? Like the one attached.

chuqu.wma

[ocrtech]

I listened again and to me there is still a marked difference between someone who is saying "qu" by itself and someone who is saying "chu qu". So I went back to one of my Pimselur lessons and listened to a sentence that had "lü cha" (green tea) in it. I can definitely hear the ü. But for me the ü in "lü" is a different sound than either "qu" on its own or "chu qu".

I will see if I can cut the three words out into small audio files and then post them here. I am assuming this is just a problem I am having with accents but who knows.

[Shi Tong]

How about this? A pronunciation of lücha followed by a pronunciation of chuqü. IMO you can hear the ü in both.

That said, ü is a relatively losable sound and can be mistaken for other sounds, IMO, since we've already had this debate about the pronunciation of Yong (to use), which IMHO, has an ü sound at the start.

lucha.wma

[renzhe]

It's exactly the same sound in all three cases. Neither i/"ee" nor u/"oo".

Perhaps you're hearing the "qu" in "chuqu" being pronounced using a light tone so it's not as clear.

[Shi Tong]

Perhaps you're hearing the "qu" in "chuqu" being pronounced using a light tone so it's not as clear.

I think this is definately likely if you're learning Chinese standard (renzhe, tell me, is it qingsheng in China?). Taiwanese pronounce qu4 with a 4th tone, which may make it easier. This is how I've pronounced it on my recording.

[renzhe]

I'm sure I've heard it with light tone. But this may not be standard. I'll check my dictionaries when I get home.

[Shi Tong]

Hello renzhe,

Me too, looking on MDBG gives me this result though:

出去 chū​qù​ (to go out) and I know it's taught like that/ spoken that was in Taiwan, so if it's like that on MDBG, I would have thought it's standard in China too.

I do understand that the Chinese do sometimes use qingsheng a lot in "two word words", therefore it wouldn't surprise me if some people said it like that.

[renzhe]

chū​qù​ is the correct pronunciation on the Mainland.

But I'm sure I've heard a neutral tone there too. Or at least the first syllable was far more stressed than the second.

When it comes to tricky things like qingsheng and erhua, I tend to trust my paper dictionary more than online ones.

[tooironic]

I wouldn't trust dictionaries about variant pronunciations. I don't think I've seen any dictionary - print, electronic or online - consistently document it. To this end I've slowly managed to archive some on Wiktionary (you can check them out here). As for 出去, I'm not sure if the qingsheng pronunciation is common, perhaps I'll ask some native speakers later if I get time.

[Shi Tong]

Either way, I suppose the point is that most people say chu1qu4, and the u at the end of qu4 is definately an ü. In Taiwan they say chu1qu4, and I'm guessing that if renzhe agrees with me, that it must be pretty much standard everywhere!

[renzhe]

After checking with a couple of friends, chu1qu5 seems to be quite common in colloquial speech, so maybe it really is what the OP heard.

[Shi Tong]

After checking with a couple of friends, chu1qu5 seems to be quite common in colloquial speech, so maybe it really is what the OP heard.

Wouldn't surprise me, as I have heard it once or twice from memory, and I know most Taiwanese dont say it like this.

It would also explain the drop off of the end of the qu4 sound.. leading to the question why it seems to be a lot less obvious than something pronounced in a different tone.