TEFL long-term career in China - problems?

[markwhiteman]

Hi, I've a few questions about the viability of teaching English as a foreign language (TEFL, TESOL it's sometimes called) in China for a long period of time - longer than six months at least.

Some background:

(1) I recently quit university but have enough credits to earn an Associate's degree, which means I've got a degree but not a BA or BSC.

(2) I already have 120hrs experience teaching English in France, but without a TEFL-qualification.

(3) I have signed up for a 'placement' for 4.5 months in China, starting August 2010, but will wish to extend my visa for at least another six months.

(4) I've been told I need and will have help getting, from the school hosting my placement, a Z-Visa.

Questions:

(a) How easy is it to extend my visa, if I find employment, when I have an Associate's degree?

(B) Where can I find TEFL employment once in China? Are there recruitment agencies?

© If I wanted to stay in China for the foreseeable future, i.e. 3 years plus, what potential barriers are there? (e.g. Visa, taxes)

(d) I'm taking a course in Chinese Mandarin before I start the placement (4-6 weeks of 30hrs), but once I've started teaching funds will be low: how can I learn Chinese whilst I work as an English teacher? What are the cheapest options?

(e) Keeping it within the remit of the aforementioned, does anyone have similar experiences or aims?

I hope that's clear enough and look forward to your responses.

Many thanks, Mark

Mark

[liuzhou]

Current regulations state that foreign teachers require a minimum of a bachelor's degree and two years' teaching experience to be issued the appropriate permissions to teach in China.

This is likely to be changed to a minimum of a Master's degree within the next 3 to 5 years.

(Largely, because China is trying to raise the level of their native teachers to Masters level, while blissfully unaware that most Chinese Masters' degrees are about the same level as a western university entrance exam, at best. In fact, many teachers apply for entry to masters programmes, are accepted and use the acceptance letter as their qualification, without actually studying or doing the course.)

Of course, there are many schools which will ignore all of this this, but they are essentially operating in the black market. You don't even need to be able to speak English to get a balck market job as an English teacher. I have met many foreign English teachers who couldn't hold a simple conversation with me in English! I assume this is not what you want if you want an extended placement.

Yes, you need a Z visa to work legally, but this is only an entry visa and has to be exchanged for a residence permit within 30 days. Only employers licensed to employ foreigners can arrange this. To get the residence permit you have to show your Bachelor's qualification plus other paperwork.

The residence visa is linked to the employer, so if you quit that job the permit is no longer valid. Whether or not this is enforced depends on how annoyed the ex-employer feels.

Speaking Chinese is largely irrelevant to teaching in China. If you are speaking Chinese to your students you are not helping them.

Hope that clarifies a few things.

[clevermae]

Liuzhou pretty much answered all your questions. But if you really want to learn how to speak Chinese, then I have a suggestion for your question letter D. You can partner with one of your students who is willing to practice his English with you, and for you to practice your Chinese with him or her. You can spend an hour each day, like half an hour each, tutoring each other.

[MissRin]

Hi there

My fella and I are heading off to China to teach this month. I will tell you some of the things we have found.

Background : We are UK citizens, we don't have degrees, we have some teaching experience, but no TEFL certificate.

(1) I recently quit university but have enough credits to earn an Associate's degree, which means I've got a degree but not a BA or BSC.

Generally, i would say having an associates won't help much, its a BA or MA they are after. On the other hand, any certificate you have will help to an extent... They are very document oriented in China!

(2) I already have 120hrs experience teaching English in France, but without a TEFL-qualification.

They like a certificate as I mentioned before, but, generally, experience is better any day of the week. Can you get a letter from the place you taught in France? That would do you the world of good!

(3) I have signed up for a 'placement' for 4.5 months in China, starting August 2010, but will wish to extend my visa for at least another six months.

Are you getting an F to start with, or are you going on a Z? A residence permit which is what you swap your Z for lasts for a year. If you get an F for the placement, is it an internship by the way? It should be fairly easy to change it to a Z after the placement is finished, but you will likely have to go to Hong Kong to do this.

(4) I've been told I need and will have help getting, from the school hosting my placement, a Z-Visa.

A Z is easy enough to get, (depending on the province...again, you will have to be choosy on your province as you lack a BA or MA) if they say they will help you get one, you should expect to get a letter of invitation from them. This should arrive in the mail, not be an email attachment.

Questions:

(a) How easy is it to extend my visa, if I find employment, when I have an Associate's degree?

As stated a Z is normally for a year, i don't know why you would be getting a Z for 4.5 months. Also, as i mentioned, the associates probably won't help much. If you find employment after your placement, they will have to supply a letter of invitation that you will have to take to the visa office...in HK.

(b) Where can I find TEFL employment once in China? Are there recruitment agencies?

There are literally hundreds of agencies. If you can, stay clear unless someone you know has used them and recommend one. There are many unscrupulous ones, so be careful.

© If I wanted to stay in China for the foreseeable future, i.e. 3 years plus, what potential barriers are there? (e.g. Visa, taxes)

Generally an FT in China will not have to pay tax. You definitely won't pay tax if you are earning less than 4,800 RMB month.

(d) I'm taking a course in Chinese Mandarin before I start the placement (4-6 weeks of 30hrs), but once I've started teaching funds will be low: how can I learn Chinese whilst I work as an English teacher? What are the cheapest options?

Most people will be willing to do a language exchange with you. You teach them English, they teach you mandarin. It shouldn't cost anything.

(e) Keeping it within the remit of the aforementioned, does anyone have similar experiences or aims?

Yes! My boyfriend and I are doing this in a few weeks!

Hope I helped a little!

EDIT

To get the residence permit you have to show your Bachelor's qualification plus other paperwork.

This varies from province to province, city to city.

[GreenArrow45]

hey,

I currently teach in China (as an expat) and have several co-workers who have been teachers here for many a years. If you only have an Associate's degree, and have not already secured a work z visa, I would recommend looking into getting a student visa. I say this for several reasons: there are more and more native English speakers coming to China for work with Bachelor's Degrees (so even if you would be a better teacher, the schools quite likely will see their qualifications as better) ; you mentioned wanting to continue studying Chinese - so being a student would certainly give you this opportunity ; lastly, depending on the contract you get with a school, you may be stuck in a horrible situation that would cost you more to get out of than to stay in it, however, with the universities there is much more leniency in terms of going to class ect.

hope this helps

[aroberts42]

Mu husband does not have a bachelor's degree and he is teaching English here in China with me, working completely legally. He is even on a Z visa as an English teacher. If you do not have a degree and want to teach English, though, you will need to go through an Agent. Many agencies have special permission to hire native English speakers without degrees. However, you will need some kind of experience or certification. We went through Buckland Education Group in Yangshou and they provided us with TESOL certification. But if you want to get a job without an agent (you most likely will make more money this way, but will not have any support should you get in any sticky situations)you will need a bachelor's degree.

[DrZero]

This is likely to be changed to a minimum of a Master's degree within the next 3 to 5 years.

What makes you think this?

[Matty]

This is likely to be changed to a minimum of a Master's degree within the next 3 to 5 years.

What makes you think this?

Not mine, but I'd like to throw in a reply none the less...

China is progressing rapidly and I'm predicting 2 changes that will cause this, though I'd say over the next 10 years to be safe.

1) More foreigners are wanting to come to China to work due to economics and other varying reasons. With this extra supply demand will slowly lower and there will be more choice for the schools. Who would you choose if you had a choice: no degree, a bachelor degree, a masters degree, or a phd?

2) China is progressing very fast, with this the demand for Chinese will increase, and as more people learn Chinese there will be less and less need for so much English skills.

Pretty much supply is increasing, demand will start decreasing and as this trend continues quality will become a more and more important factor.

The currently extreme popularity of English wont die over night, but it will slowly fade.

[gerri]

Let me chime in here: More and more of my Chinese colleagues are a bit troubled because the (state) universities are starting to require that their teachers have a Ph.D. One new-ish colleague (he had studied here) only got in because his Master's is from Germany and he had his connections...

[fanglu]

With this extra supply demand will slowly lower and there will be more choice for the schools

China has a lot of problems, but I don't think an oversupply of native-speaker English teachers is one of them.

Who would you choose if you had a choice: no degree, a bachelor degree, a masters degree, or a phd?

But that's the point, a rule requiring all teachers to have masters degrees doesn't give schools a choice. Even if there was a huge number of English teachers competing to go to China, it makes no sense for the government to bring in a rule like this. Why not just let schools pick the people they want through whatever criteria they want? Those with qualifications that didn't meat schools' requirements wouldn't get hired.

[Matty]

With this extra supply demand will slowly lower and there will be more choice for the schools

China has a lot of problems, but I don't think an oversupply of native-speaker English teachers is one of them.

The problem here is you're talking about now, in the present tense, I'm talking about the future, 3, 5 or 10 years into the future.

Who would you choose if you had a choice: no degree, a bachelor degree, a masters degree, or a phd?

But that's the point, a rule requiring all teachers to have masters degrees doesn't give schools a choice. Even if there was a huge number of English teachers competing to go to China, it makes no sense for the government to bring in a rule like this. Why not just let schools pick the people they want through whatever criteria they want? Those with qualifications that didn't meat schools' requirements wouldn't get hired.

I'm not specifically talking about a government introduced rule, schools and universities all want educators with high qualifications, and those with high qualifications will generally be selected over those with lesser qualifications as this will be better for the schools reputation and in theory for the students. I believe it will simply become survival of the fittest, with the highest degrees and those already established well in their educational institution will survive and the lesser ones will be left behind. This is an important reason I'm not putting too thought into the idea of becoming an English teacher. Foreign teachers are already paid way too much and in time these institutions will start expecting more value for their money.

didn't meat schools'

Finally I just had to point it out, it's probably just a typo but just in case. <== This is not a dig, just trying to be helpful.

"meat" is like pork, or beef.

The meet you're after is meet.

[aroberts42]

This is all supposition; there are no facts, number, or studies to support such wild claims. Not only that, people seem to forget that while China is changing, it is far bigger than most people can fathom. While more Americans and Europens might start emmigrating to China to work in the next 10 years, 1 or 2 foreigners out of 1,000,000 people is not going to make such a difference that job requirements will change that much. I live in LiXian, there are 2 Americans and 2 Brits out of 900,000 people. Even if our numbers double or tripple in the next decade, we wouldn't lose our jobs because all of a sudden there is a 'huge influx' of foreigners. Not only that, the number of Chinese people is still increasing. So while the numbers of foreigners might increase over the next decade (the 'supply') so will the numbers of Chinese needing to learn English (the 'demand').

However, I could be completely wrong. But so could anyone claiming that we are all going to need master's degrees in the next 5 years. There is absolutely no evidence either way. So rest easy those of you with bachelor's degrees, there is no evidence that your jobs will be in danger any time soon.

[aristotle1990]

The problem here is you're talking about now, in the present tense, I'm talking about the future, 3, 5 or 10 years into the future.

Maybe, just maybe, in Beijing or Shanghai. But until all 492,683 schools in China get a native speaker of English (or three), demand is going to remain quite high. Salaries should balance out too -- the number of English teachers in China will rise with time, but living standards and salaries will also increase with time.

[roddy]

Give it a few more years, and the guy with a BA in Education, an MA in Applied Linguistics and five years teaching experience will be losing out to the girl with a PhD in Obscure Mathematics and two years burger flipping experience. For a kindergarten job.

[liuzhou]

This is likely to be changed to a minimum of a Master's degree within the next 3 to 5 years.

What makes you think this?

It has been publicly announced by the Education Bureau and the Foreign Experts Bureau. All that has to be decided is the introduction date. 

it makes no sense for the government to bring in a rule like this

When did sense become a prerequisite for introducing a rule?

[DrZero]

Do you have a link? Not taking the piss, would just like to see it.

[liuzhou]

I do have links, but I'm not at home now.

Coincidentally, I do have a meeting with Guangxi Foreign Experts' Bureau next week, so will try to extract precise reference between banquet .

The upcoming requirement is certainly well known among those responsible for recruiting university and college teachers. It has been their main topic of conversation at recent meetings I have infiltrated.