University ranking in Greater China

[Ian_Lee]

Shanghai Jiaotong University just released a report on worldwide university ranking:

http://english.www.gov.tw/index.jsp?action=cna&cnaid=2073

According to the report, the universities in the Greater China area are ranked according to the following order:

(1) National Taiwan University

(2) Chinese University of Hong Kong

(3) Hong Kong University of Science & Technology

(4) Beijing University

(5) Tsinghua University at Beijing

(6) Shanghai Jiaotung University

(7) National Cheng Kung University at Taiwan

[skylee]

I think here is the full list -> http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2004/top500list.htm

CUHK (ranked 204) and HKUST (ranked 213) ahead of Beijing U and Tsinghua U? This seems a bit surprising.

BTW, HK Government used to send their senior staff to England for training. Now most of them go to Tsinghua

[niubi]

why is israel considered "asia pacific"?

[Claw]

Well, Israel is on the Asian continent. It doesn't fit under the two other categories (North & South America and Europe).

[skylee]

Resurrecting a 2004 thread.

This is new -> 港大蟬聯亞洲最佳大學

英國《泰晤士報高等教育特刊》今日公布亞洲200所最佳大學排名榜。香港3所大學躋身前4位，香港大學蟬聯亞洲「一哥」，科技大學則與中文大學「大執位」，科大躍升兩級，排第二，超越由第二位跌至第四位的中文大學；日本繼續成為「大贏家」，共有5所大學位列前10名。

I think it is kind of surreal. Three HK universities in Top 4? Aren't universities in Japan regarded to be the best in Asia?

I can imagine how happy the HKUST people are. They are proud of their rankings -> http://www.ust.hk/en...out/ranking.htm

[Hofmann]

Aren't universities in Japan regarded to be the best in Asia?

They were that way for a long time.

[skylee]

I wonder why the best universities in China are not ranked very high. Is it because they are not internationalised enough? Or their research / publications are not well-recognised in the world?

Views?

BTW, No. 3 is the National University of Singapore, and No. 5 is the University of Tokyo.

根據調查，2010年亞洲前20名最佳大學分別是：香港大學、香港科技大學（上升2名）、新加坡國立大學（上升7名）、香港中文大學（下跌2名）、東京大學（下跌2名）、國立首爾大學（上升2名）、大阪大學（下跌1名）、京都大學（下跌3名）、日本東北大學（Tohoku University上升4名）、名古屋大學（上升2名）。

東京工業大學（下跌2名）、北京大學（下跌2名）、韓國科學技術院（Korea Advanced Institute ofScience & Technology下跌5名）、韓國浦項科技大學（Pohang University of Science And Technology上升3名）、香港城市大學（上升3名）、中國清華大學（下跌1名）、九州大學（Kyushu University下跌2名）、新加坡南洋理工大學（下跌4名）、韓國延世大學（上升6名），筑波大學（下跌1名）。(source)

[gato]

Actually, it is the QS ranking, rather than the Times ranking now. QS is a consulting company.

I do not think universities are that comparable between countries. You could compare on such basis as student faculty ratio, publication in international journals, etc., but to compare on that basis between different countries could be very misleading.

By the way, Beida and Tsinghua did poorly in the TS probably because of their high student faculty ratio and the low percentage of international faculty and students.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Higher_Education_World_University_Rankings

After the 2009 rankings, Times Higher Education took the decision to break from QS and instead signed an agreement with Thomson Reuters to provide the data for its annual World University Rankings. Times Higher Education will develop a new rankings methodology in the coming months, in consultation with its readers, its editorial board and Thomson Reuters. Thomson Reuters will collect and analyse the data used to produce the rankings on behalf of Times Higher Education. The results will be published annually from autumn 2010.[4]

Times Higher Education is currently inviting readers to comment on how the methodology for compiling the rankings can be improved.[5]

Commenting on Times Higher Education’s decision to split from QS, editor Ann Mroz said: “universities deserve a rigorous, robust and transparent set of rankings - a serious tool for the sector, not just an annual curiosity." She went on to explain the reason behind the decision to continue to produce rankings without QS’ involvement, saying that: "The responsibility weighs heavy on our shoulders...we feel we have a duty to improve how we compile them.”[6]

Phil Baty, editor of the new Times Higher Education World University Rankings, admitted in Inside Higher Ed: "The rankings of the world’s top universities that my magazine has been publishing for the past six years, and which have attracted enormous global attention, are not good enough. In fact, the surveys of reputation, which made up 40 percent of scores and which Times Higher Education until recently defended, had serious weaknesses. And it’s clear that our research measures favored the sciences over the humanities."[7]

He went on to describe previous attempts at peer review as "embarrassing" in The Australian: "The sample was simply too small, and the weighting too high, to be taken seriously."[8]

[skylee]

I do not think universities are that comparable between countries.

Why ?

[gato]

Well, in anticipation of your objections, I deliberately said "that comparable", so you could still compare them, but the end product might not be a comparison of overall quality, but rahter just of whatever criteria you decided to use.

If we look at why Tokyo University is ranked lower than Hong Kong Unviersity, we will find a good part of the answer.

A big problem with comparing across countries is that you can't use admission test scores in your ranking, so the selectivity of the schoools, which is an important factor in almost all in-country rankings, ends up not being considered at all.

[skylee]

I read this news article with interest-> 中大取錄15歲河南神童收270內地尖子

中文大學昨公佈內地招生結果，取錄了270名內地「尖子」，其中17名是「高考狀元」，佔內地約70名高考狀元的逾兩成，當中更包括於高考奪600分（滿分為750分）、僅得15歲的河南省「神童」杭凱。

除中大外，連同香港大學早前公佈共取錄10名「高考狀元」，本港共取錄近四成內地「高考狀元」。

I find it a bit hard to believe that about 40% of the very best students (the so-called 高考狀元) in China will come to study in universities in HK. And I wonder why the top universities in China failed to recruit them, and what will happen when a large proportion of these top students do not pursue further study in China?

[roddy]

There's only 70 of them to start with though, so what they do in any one year probably isn't all that representative. If there's a tendency to study abroad (and not come back) generally among the better students, that's something to worry about (for China, anyway). As for how they were recruited, I recall reading something about hefty scholarships.

It's very good publicity for Hong Kong's universities.

[gato]

Nothing much will happen. But are HK students complaining about mainlander raising the grading curve? What language are college classes in HK usually taught in?

[wushijiao]

What language are college classes in HK usually taught in?

English, except in very rare cases (Chinese history, lit...etc, then it is usually Cantonese).

[Don_Horhe]

Hmm, this is interesting and, based on what I've experienced, not far from the truth: http://www.china.org.cn/opinion/2010-06/29/content_20379410.htm