Unknown character-help?

[calibre2001]

It has 君 on top and 羊 below. Really tight looking character. And is often combined with 雄 as in X 雄. Thanks.

[chrix]

it should be a variant of 群

http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE7ZdicBEZdicA4.htm

[jbradfor]

And it is:

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddict&wdrst=1&wdqb=%E7%BE%A3

[Pretty ugly too, IMHO.]

[chrix]

actually, jbradfor, my link included the character too, in the second and third tabs, couldn't figure out how to link to the relevant tabs directly

[jbradfor]

I know. How else do you think I was able to find the character to cut-and-paste into MDBG?

[Actually, it was on the first tab too, on the very bottom.]

[889]

Let's give everyone a look:

羣

[Hofmann]

That is the orthodox variant.

[Glenn]

What does that mean, "orthodox variant"?

[Hofmann]

See this video.

[Glenn]

Well that adds a whole level of complexity to what I thought I knew about characters and their allographs, although I'm not sure I completely understand it. He's mostly talking about handwritten and calligraphic forms, right? not printed forms? I have to say, some of the ones he said were different in his list of standards looked more similar than ones he said were the same, just with differences in the handwriting. I wonder if he was referring to stroke order in those cases (e.g., 京). But anyway, basically the orthodox forms are the ones found in 康熙字典, right?

[Hofmann]

Of course there are more written variants than printed ones. Typefaces tend to use orthodox forms just to be safe. Yes, orthodox forms are usually found in the Kangxi Dictionary. For 京, if you look closely at the Japanese standard, you'll see that the first stroke is a vertical stroke, while the other standards have a dot.

[Glenn]

This is interesting. It's the first time I've heard of this distinction. I'm going to have to see if I can dig some more stuff up on this.

[trien27]

it should be a variant of 群

Actually 群 is the variant of 羣, which is the "orthodox variant" [ = 正體字] as said by Hoffman. 群 was made into Simplified Chinese due to it being easier on the eyes, and not the Traditional Chinese, which almost always uses 羣, unless the person is lazy or forgot how it's written, then 群 would be used instead.

Yes, orthodox forms are usually found in the Kangxi Dictionary.

羣 is on page 952, 1st character under 7 strokes

Source:

http://www.nciku.cn/search/zh/detail/%E7%BE%A4/1312468

http://www.kangxizidian.com/

Edited May 3, 2010 at 01:08 AM by trien27

[Hofmann]

Actually, that A is a variant of B means that B is a variant of A. Furthermore, I wouldn't say Traditional Chinese almost always uses 羣. 群 is popular enough (in both educated and common writing) that the Republic of China Ministry of Education has adopted it as standard.

[889]

I'd suggest 峰 and 峯 also fall in this category.

Other examples?

[skylee]

裏 and 裡.