come to kunming?

[jackiechanbabe]

Hi guys. I'll be coming to China for about 6-8 weeks this summer with no Chinese. I hope to study Chinese part-time and teach English a wee bit too.

How easy would it be for me (white, American, young, woman, college educated) to land a part-time job teaching or tutoring in Kunming?

Do you like living in Kunming? Is there enough to keep me busy for 2 months? How is he expat community? Are women treated well there?

Is there someone else you would rather be? I'm also thinking about Suzhou, Chengdu, Dalian, Hangzhou, and Qingdao.

Thanks!

[Erbse]

if you are there for only 6 to 8 weeks, I doubt it is worth the hassle to find a job. You might get lucky and get one on the first day, or it takes you 4 weeks until you give the first lesson. The customers on the other hand prefer to find a teacher who will stay for a whole semester or longer. It is also trouble for them finding new ones every 4 weeks. So why bother? But in general, English teachers are always in demand.

Kunming is a great choice for living.

Depends on what you want, I can definitely have a great time for 2 months. But that depends on your personality I guess, on the things that interest you.

There are quite some foreigners and most of them stick to a particular area, so they can be easily found.

Women are treated as everywhere in China. A friend from the Netherlands pointed out, that the Chinese guys are very shy there, but I guess that's true in other places as well.

The other cities are also nice choices. Depends on what you want. Kunming is warm, humid climate, relatively clean air (only the coast is better). Inside the city there is not much in terms of temples and parks, but the countryside around has very much to offer. There is a vibrant and diverse nightlife.

[abcdefg]

Summer is rainy season here.

[putonghua73]

There is a vibrant and diverse nightlife.

Are we talking about Kunming? I agree with your description except the night-life. It's appalling! Kundu wore thin on the 3rd visit, and the bar scene is rudimentary at best. The worst aspect is the excruciating music - particularly David 1855 - which verges on the worst kitsch i.e. playing a goddawful version of 'Happy Birthday' and all of the Chinese singing in unison.

If I hear Lady Gaga 'Pokerface' one more time ..

As Erbse pointed out, depends on your interests. There are not many cultural pursuits in Kunming, and you may enjoy the night-life if you have simple (unsophisticated) expectations.

It would be more beneficial if you could list what your priorities and criteria are, because your criteria may be different to mine i.e. I wanted a mid-sized city, relatively unpolluted, clean, with green spaces (ha! but Kunming is full of vibrant foliage and flowers). I wanted somewhere humane to live, the polar opposite of Beijing and Shanghai.

You may wish to consider Xiamen, based upon Joshuabb's post. Why are you also considering "Suzhou, Chengdu, Dalian, Hangzhou, and Qingdao"? If we know your priorities and criteria, it will be easier to assist you to find the best fit for you to study Chinese.

Cheers!

[jackiechanbabe]

Thanks for the replies.

What I'm looking for:

My nightlife pursuits are indeed quite "unsophisticated" and I think hearing Lady Gaga and Happy Birthday all the time would be more hilarious than annoying. I am more of a take a walk and get some street food and performers (and see weird things to laugh at) than get drunk and go to a chic party. Although a night of drinking and dancing now and then (maybe once every 3-4 weeks) is appreciated. Maybe some local or touring bands or theater groups would be nice too.

I don't want to live in a crazy over-populated and polluted city where motorbikes threaten to squash me at every turn. But I want to live somewhere with things to do and see, that's not too western (I'm paying enough to go somewhere "exotic!"), and with good food and nice people. Green, natural areas are also a plus. I feel a lot better when my surroundings are pleasing to the eye.

I also need to be able to use the Mandarin I will be learning in the streets, so if the city has a completely different dialect that won't serve me too well. I know most places deviate form standard Mandarin but I want to be understood at least.

I really wanted to go to Hangzhou but it seems like it will be between 90 and 100 degrees for my entire duration, so I don't know if that's worth it.

I also want to find a good school for 15-20 hours a week! Not interested in paying over 2,000 for 6 weeks of teaching, but I'm really rather clueless as to how to set this up.

I've heard that Kunming is boring. I don't mind if the nightlife isn't awesome but I want to make sure I'll be witnessing unique cultural things (street art, interesting foods, Chinese medicine and massage shops, local music, etc). You know, local color! Does Kunming have local color and at least a little bit of "exotic-ness" to it?

Also, what kind of weekend trips can one take? I was excited about Hangzhou being only 2 hours from Shanghai. Is there anywhere nearby Kunming that would be fun for a weekend?

Reasons I am interested in:

1. Chengdu - Heard it has nice nature around (pandas!) it and that it is a relaxed city and people (spicy food though! i might die!)

2. Qingdao and Dalian - Haven't had time to research yet but heard there are 2 of the most "livable" cities

3. Hangzhou - Tourist area so must be nice and have stuff to do! Natural beauty, cheap massage parlors (that's a must!), cultural buildings like temples, and lost of tea vendors. But again, the heat might ruin all that since I'd come and leave during the hottest season of the year.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply!

[amandagmu]

Have you considered Dalian? It pretty much meets most of your criteria. I'm about the same as you on the nightlife scene. The summer I spent in Dalian I went to the International Beer Festival. The "nightlife" down the street from the university (Liaoning Shifan Daxue) was more typical: Friday and Saturday nights lots of street food, dancing, hot pot places, people selling random stuff. The campuses, port, beaches, ETC had cooler weather, some greenery, and I often took walks around campus from 9~10pm with Chinese or Korean friends (who spoke no English, we communicated in Chinese) and we'd buy popsicles or something. Occasionally we'd go to one or two half-decent restaurants or bars in the center of the city, but mostly I just preferred to stay out of central downtown because I was perfectly happy where I was, even if by most people's standards it had virtually no nightlife.

This is the program I went to:

http://www.hyccchina.com/Notice.aspx?id=42

[amandagmu]

P.S. Most people would probably agree with me that in terms of weather Dalian is probably your best bet for the summer months, hands down.

[jackiechanbabe]

Thanks for the reply. Is Dalian an ok place for someone to go with no Chinese abilities other than "hi" and "do you speak English?" I will only be there for 6 weeks so will not be good enough to probably make friends with people who don't speak English or Spanish. I want to make friends as well as learn some Chinese! Are there enough English or Spanish-speaking expats around?

Also, I've heard Dalian lacks "culture" or "local color." Do you think that's true? Or does it maintain a sort of "exotic-ness" I would want after spending $2000 on a plane ticket!

[amandagmu]

As for language skills, if you're really nervous about learning from scratch you could try Dalian Foreign Languages University which, like BLCU in Beijing, is full of foreigners. You mentioned you weren't interested in that kind of experience, so that's why I suggested Liaoning Shifan Daxue. Basically, you need to decide what you want before you choose a program. If you're a total beginner in Chinese and you're nervous about not being able to get around in English, then you can use a service like HYCC (ask for Adam to help you when you contact them) to help guide you to the right program and/or through emergencies or situations that arise, in which you NEED someone who speaks English. They charge a fee for their service (as you can see on their website, it's for the whole summer) but they are very responsive and helpful. At the same time, I would recommend finding a couple of Chinese students who want to practice their English and making friends with them real fast (should not be difficult).

If you are less adventurous and want people to speak English with you, you might consider a foreign languages uni like DUFL. As a warning, there are (obviously) many foreigners there, but for the friends I made at that university (a large population of people from Europe and Scandinavia) it was what they wanted. Many of them were beginners, whereas I was already intermediate level.

As for "culture" I am not quite sure what you mean, but if you mean things like temples and such, in other words whatever people think is "true Chinese traditional civilization" ETC then Dalian doesn't have much of that. But in my opinion, "culture" is a vague word in China. Dalian is unusual... prior to 1949 it went through a period where it was run by Russians and then Japanese. There are remnants of this everywhere. You can take a bus to a section of the Great Wall, and also to Dandong, which is the city that borders North Korea (along the Dalu river). For me, this was plenty of culture! And if I wanted to go to Beijing I could take a cheap train ride down South and see the sites there.

[amandagmu]

As for expats in Dalian: You can probably find English speakers but not so many Spanish speakers (if any?). Realistically, outside of Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong and (maybe?) Chengdu, you won't find places with a high concentration of native English or Spanish speakers. Actually, I don't ever remember meeting a Spanish-speaking expat in Beijing or even in Taipei when I was there, but I did meet lots of students from Spain and South America.

[abcdefg]

I've heard that Kunming is boring.

I think you would be happier somewhere else for your summer. In Kunming, the pace of life is slow. Those of us who live here like that, but it sounds as though you crave more action and excitement.

[valikor]

If you're interested in studying Chinese, why would you come for 6-8 weeks? Is that enough? (Not a rhetorical question, I'm just curious)

I guess it might be a good chance to try it out and see if you like it... but I wouldn't get your hopes up for achieving any conversation after such a short time.

[jackiechanbabe]

I'm a teacher so I get summers off (w00t). I thought it would be fun and useful at my work next year because I work with a lot of Chinese students fresh off the boat who know close to nill English. I don't expect to be speaking Chinese well after only 6 weeks but I'm bound to learn something and hopefully have a nice time.

[black dragon]

I don't think it's good time to go to Kunming, click this. Messy everywhere.

[abcdefg]

For a month or six weeks, your best bet will be a private school which offers one-to-one instruction. It isn't the cheapest way to go, but getting a good foundation is essential for anything which may follow later. Schools which advertise "small classes" often lump you with other learners of different levels. Beijing and Shanghai are full of private schools, of varying quality and cost; and Kunming has several as well. In any given school the most important variable is the teacher who actually works with you.

http://www.gokunming.com will tell you more about the Kunming options. Keats is one I have used in the past and I was very happy with their setup. I also found a good small school in Harbin. http://www.1to1mandarinworkshop.com/ These schools are not inexpensive, but they were good.

Alternatively, you could just use this summer to travel to several cities in China and get a sample of what life is like here. There is no shame in being a tourist. It's eductational and fun to visit some famous places and see the usual sights. Maybe during the course of the summer you will be fortunate enough to even find a place you really like and you can make plans to return there later on when you have more time to spend. Make this summer a "sight seeing" summer and next summer a "study in China" summer.

Bear in mind that, regardless of what you read on-line about this or that city, or what others tell you, it will need to just "feel right" to you once you are physically there with your feet on the ground or you won't have a great time. It's difficult to predict. I have gone to places I was positive I would love and found them to be not at all to my liking. Conversely, I've just "stumbled on" unlikely places that were terrific and just what I was looking for.

To repeat for emphasis, the internet is helpful, but it has its limitations. And what cities you like or don't like is a highly personal matter and difficult to forecast accurately based on what other people say.

[chrix]

Yeah, I think that's a great suggestion by abcdefg. You could also combine this, visit three places each for two-three weeks, and arrange for 1-one-1 lessons in each city...

[putonghua73]

It's difficult to predict. I have gone to places I was positive I would love and found them to be not at all to my liking. Conversely, I've just "stumbled on" unlikely places that were terrific and just what I was looking for

If you have time and inclination, it would be really informative to get an idea of these places, your initial impressions before you arrived, and your impressions after living there a while.

Whilst I like Kunming, if I didn't meet my girlfriend here and I was here for say a year, I'd definitely consider moving to try another city after 3 months (3 months in each city). It is a little too slow here for my tastes, and I'm still struggling with the lack of parks (but this will be a principal problem unless I move to a really small, rural place - which would be too small! No pleasing me ;)) My preferences were Kunming or Chengdu. The principal reasons I ruled out Chengdu was from speaking to an American girl whom I met in Kiso Valley, Japan with my ex a number of years back, she recommended Kunming based upon my criteria, ruling out Chengdu because it is one of the "Four Furnances" in China - I'd die in Summer.

Also, from my albeit limited research, the choices of language options re: 1-2-1 tuition was surprisingly lacking.

I guess from reading about other places, I have a case of itchy feet or grass-is-also-greener. The idea of spending 6-8 weeks 'scouting' is a fantastic idea if one was studying for a longer period (year or more). If she can only study 6-8 weeks at a time due to work commitments [teacher], then maybe choose a city that best fits her criteria and roll with it! If she doesn't like the city, then at least it is an experience and her Chinese will improve. Choose a different city next time!

Cheers!