Help Deciding B/t Cities

[GreenArrow45]

Hello,

I know you probably get a fair number of posts regarding where to study and/or work in China, so I hope this is not too redundant. But, here is my current situation: I live in Taiyuan (the Capital of Shanxi Province) where I both teach EFL and study Mandarin. My Mandarin level is between elementary and intermediate. I am trying to decide upon a new city to move to where I will apply for a student visa for this upcoming year (Sept 2010 - Sept 2011). There are several things I am looking for in a city, and I have consulted some of my Chinese friends, but would like more input if possible.

The main things I am looking for are:

- Few Expats (I actually enjoy the number of Expats in Taiyuan)

- Courses with preferably only 10 to 15 students in the class, but at most 20

- City where part-time work for teaching English is readily available

- A city with very little pollution (after my time in Taiyuan, my lungs need to rehabilitate)

- Lastly, preferably a city that isn't as cold as Taiyuan, or, if it is, one that is capable of handling large snow storms (which I have learned Taiyuan is not capable of doing)

Outside of these things, there are of course some other factors that I am considering but, the first four I listed are the main ones I am going to base my decision on. The weather is important to me for a variety of reasons not listed there, but if a city has everything else I mentioned, I would be hard pressed to turn it down due to cold weather. Also, I feel I should note the reasons I am leaving Taiyuan, which can hopefully help people give me advice:

1) The city is extremely dirty, I love to run outside, however, merely riding my bike or walking can leaving me coughing up pollution. Likewise, the streets are disgusting as well as people find it acceptable to urinate and defecate on the sidewalk, I see it on a weekly basis ( I have lived in Xi'an and Beijing, so I know this is not acceptable in other parts of China)

2) In the winter, when we had the snow storms, the streets would remain covered in ice for weeks, creating dangerous hazards for everyone, so I would prefer some more efficiency with that (although not absolutely necessary).

3) The people here are extremely rude, while I don't mind the occasional "Ha Low!" or stares, when you understand the language, the things people say here are extremely obnoxious and derogatory, things that were I to say to a China person, I would likely end up having them attack me.

4) The culture of the people brought on by the presence of the coal industry. Many of the females here - while unattractive - are extremely pretentious because they are married to their rich coal mine exec husband. Similarly, their offspring have the same demeanor, treating everyone else (Foreign and Chinese alike) as though they are their doormat. On the opposite end of the spectrum, many of the males take on what is almost a stalker-like behavior, they will call you constantly and if you don't talk to them or attempt to tell them you're not friends they simply get angry and escalate their attempts to talk to you...or in the case of their behavior towards female, it is a fairly common thing to see males here hitting their significant other.

** I would like to note for people that, while I obviously have my problems with Taiyuan, I have spent a fair amount of time in other cities in China and have loved both the people and cities - in said places I have not found nearly as many instances of the behavior I observe daily in Taiyuan. However, I would like to see new places in China, which is why I don't plan to return to Xi'an or Beijing for study. I just hope you do not mistake my feelings about Taiyuan as being the way I feel about China in general or anywhere else I have been in China.

Thank you for your time!

BK

[gato]

From the air quality perspective, maybe you should consider Xiamen, Yantai, Qingdao, or Dalian. Do a search on this forum, and you should be able to find some discussions on these places.

[wushijiao]

I'd also take a look at Yunnan (whether Kunming, or other cities), although the cities Gato mentioned all seem good enough. You might also add Hangzhou to the list.

If you feel particularly sensitive towards derogatory comments made towards foreigners, I think Yunnan might be better. One of my friends who lived there for two years said that, due to province's own internal diversity, there was a relatively higher degree of cultural sensitivity than in other places. Although, I can't say for sure.

[889]

I agree that the Shandong Peninsula, Qingdao especially, is a good place to look.

There is a contradiction built into your search: you'll find most of the things you're looking for in the more cosmopolitan areas of China, and it's those areas that tend to attract more foreigners -- people just like you, in fact.

It's no surprise, is it, that there are few expatriates in Taiyuan?

You're going to have to compromise somewhere, and I'd suggest the "few foreigners" criterion is a good place to start.

[gato]

I agree that the Shandong Peninsula, Qingdao especially, is a good place to look.

I heard from a Yantai-er that Qingdao tends to cloudy, and that Yantai has much better weather and nicer beaches ;-)

It's no surprise, is it, that there are few expatriates in Taiyuan?

Yeah, Taiyuan sounds terrible.

[ginnjuice]

Please forgive me for bumming off this thread but I too am looking for a new place to live/work in China. I share some of the same requirements as GreenArrow45 (small-middle size city, few expats, clean environment, English teaching jobs available) but since I plan to study at the same time, I want to find a place that uses a fair amount of 普通话. I've been told this is impossible since everywhere has some sort of 口音 or even 方言 (even BJ), so I want to at least find a place where the 普通话 speaking concentration is a bit higher and where the 口音 isn't too heavy. My friends told me that in every city where there is a university, there are students that of course KNOW standard 普通话, but don't necessarily SPEAK it in their daily lives. I've heard good things about Qingdao but I heard the ex-pat community is pretty large. How is the 口音 in that area of Shandong? Shandong seems attractive because I've heard 山东人 are the most 善良! ;) I heard Kunming was really nice too, but was told that the 口音 in Yunnan is 特别重 and not a good place if you want to study standard 普通话.

What other areas in China might fit these requirements?

Thanks and sorry again for bumming off this thread!

[skylee]

Re Taiyuan. I have only spent one day in Taiyuan after a short visit to Pingyao. The record is in my blog here. I wrote quite negatively -

平遙人和太原人視隨地吐痰為完全正常的一回事，前後左右全是隨地吐痰的人。太原的人吸煙的習慣極為嚴重，我得制止我的計程車司機抽煙，至於我住的那所謂全太原唯一一家五星級的山西國貿大飯店，人們在室內固然吸煙，連在禁止吸煙的升降機內也繼續吞雲吐霧。

太原市內實在無景可遊，我只去了Lonely Planet介紹的山西博物院，院內藏品豐富，值得一遊。 平遙人和太原人的服務態度十分落後，未達水平。

我覺得好的只有機場內出入境管制的人員、收費公路的收費員和一得客棧的服務員，他們都懂得對顧客微笑和/或說謝謝。其他的人不是莫不關心（像山西博物院裏的人），就是像是我的債主似的（像便利店裏的人）。最不解的是五星級酒店的人，取房退房時都完全沒有說你好、請或謝謝，也沒有微笑。錦江集團的酒店雖然貌似香格里拉，但軟件差遠了。（不過不會說你好、請或謝謝也沒有微笑的服務員在大陸從來都不在少數。）

PS - I spent a few days in Jinan, Shandong last year. It was quite ok.

[GreenArrow45]

No problem, glad the thread can be of use to other people too.

haha, no, I'm not at all surprised at how few foreigners there are in Taiyuan.

Thanks for the suggestions, I have looked into Qingdao and Dalian a bit, from what I hear they are gorgeous cities, but as ginnjuice mentioned, the ex-pat communities there are rumored to be close to Beijing size.

I had a question about Zhejiang Province, I noticed someone had mentioned Hangzhou. Does anyone know the cost of living in other parts of Zhejiang? While money is not a huge factor, essentially I will have around 18000 RMB to spend on a tuition for the year (c. 15 to 16k RMB most places), first month or two of housing, and various transportation costs to get there. So, I still have to be a bit concerned about going someplace that will bankrupt me.

Thanks for the help!

[roddy]

While Qingdao and Dalian do have significant foreign populations, they are less western than you might expect - Qingdao tends towards Koreans, Dalian to Japanese. Also in Dalian a lot of the foreign population is out in the development zone - Dalian proper does have foreigners wandering the streets, but nowhere near the level of Wudaokou or Chaoyang. And to be honest, there's no city in China that has so many foreigners you can't dodge them. (But why would you want to, many of us are actually charming.)

(While we're bashing Taiyuan, I've never been but a friend who once got stuck there waiting for a train told me of overhearing a woman commenting on how dirty the foreigner's trousers were and somewhat surprised her by turning round and pointing out it was because of walking round her filthy city all day.)

[GreenArrow45]

Ah, good to know about Qingdao and Dalian. Yeah, I should have specified that I am only concerned with English-speaking foreigners. I don't mind large numbers of foreigners if most of them aren't going to speak English -- in theory, having lots of English-speaking foreigners shouldn't matter either, but I know that for me, I would not be as disciplined as I should about forcing them to use Chinese to talk ect too.

A question I have about another province is Hainan...my friend (she is Chinese and has family there) is really pushing for me to choose there, and she says that their English-speaking population is pretty low, and that Haikou would meet most my requirements...but I'm not sure how much of her telling me that is because she wants to have a reason to go visit Hainan more regularly or because Hainan would actually suit me.

[GreenArrow45]

So i have been spending most of my day trying to sort this out (my work got canceled for the day). I have narrowed my list down to 6 cities, 5 of which I haven't been to and will not have to chance to visit prior to potentially moving there. I plan to spend the next week or so researching various factors, but I'm hoping some people can tell me stories they may have about the city/share pictures/or just give their thoughts on the locations.

In no particular order, the 5 I am wondering about are: Ningbo, Hangzhou, Haikou, Dalian, and Guilin. The other city I am considering moving to is Xi'an, but I have spent a fair amount of time there, so I have a good idea of how I'd like/dislike there.

Thanks again!

[murrayjames]

Others here have traveled more widely in China than I have. Haven't been up North yet. Want to go.

Since you brought it up... I love, love, love Hangzhou. A beautiful place. Clean. Few foreigners (esp. considering Shanghai is <200km away). Coastal weather. Did I mention beautiful? I could retire there

[Meng Lelan]

I could retire there

There was some write up on Yahoo news about ideal places to retire and Hangzhou was the only Chinese city to make that list.

I'm wondering if Suzhou would be a good candidate city for the OP, Suzhou and Hangzhou are not very far apart.

[Scribbler]

Hi, I've been following your posts to see which city you've ended up in but I can't find mention of it. I assume you're no longer in Taiyuan...?

The reason I ask is that I'm in Taiyuan at the moment, teaching English at a high school. I noticed you started a thread suggesting that members list their favourite local bars/restaurants, etc, for the benefit of others. I couldn't see if you listed your favourites in Taiyuan...? I'm struggling to find ANY bars, let alone other westerners who might populate them!! Can you help...?

Thanks,

Scribbler.