Sports In China

[GreenArrow45]

I am wondering if anyone else has experiences similar to mine when playing sports in China (with Chinese).

So, this story is pretty indicative of every time I have played since being in China.

Anyways, today, my school organized a game with the gym teachers at a high school around here. The game starts out alright, calls were decent and there wasn't any animosity developing. Then, the second half, one of the teachers who had sat out the first half, came in. Now, mind you, he is around 6'1 6'2, and he was literally throwing his elbow at people - this is not when he has the ball, just whenever he wants - he actually shoved one of our players (a smaller guy around 5'8 maybe) and elbowed another in the back of the head, yet nothing was called on him either time. The time he shoved our player, they actually called a foul on our player, for getting shoved apparently. As the game progressed, he got worse, with nothing being called, then, at one point, he and i both go up for a rebound. I come down with the ball, and he is holding my arm, i pull my arm away so that i can shoot the ball, and he responds by punching me in the face. Now, I reacted poorly to this and should have kept my cool (which I didn't) - but my point is, from these games I have be given the impression that in general Chinese people think it is ok to cheat, are racist (our team is 6 foreigners and 3 Chinese guys), and will resort to physical aggression like some spoiled 10 year-old when things don't go their way.

I am really hoping that this is something that is exclusive to where I live, because, I would hate for this to be the case in all of China.

[HerrPetersen]

The times I went to do sports with other Chinese people things were pretty fair, but I mostly played batminton.

Are you a teacher or a student? I experienced sometimes a (I guess by western standards) double standard for people with a certain "rank" - which I did not (and still dont't) like.

Pretty interesting story you are telling - mind including the end?

[LongwenChinese]

So, this story is pretty indicative of every time I have played since being in China.

When you said "pretty indicative", did you mean that there had always been someone who cheated very badly?

[luozhen]

I once played a game of foreign teachers and students versus Chinese professors (various subjects), during SARS. Several hundred students came to watch. The foreigners were on average about 15 to 20 years younger and, when we were winded and dying to catch our breath, we didn't go to the bench and smoke a cigarette! We beat them quite badly, since we actually had some guys who played college ball and higher overseas, but there was no animosity, everyone was laughing and having a good time.

[GreenArrow45]

Herr: I'm both a student and teacher (but this was our group of foreign teachers/Chinese co-workers).

As to the ending, I shoved the guy twice after he punched me and threw the ball away (which I was a bit embarrassed about as soon as I did it). After that though, my teammates and some of their team were in a bit shouting match and everyone was fine to resume play so long as I didn't play the rest the game and the guy who punched me didn't play, but he refused to sit out. His reasoning was that, I shoved him twice, and since he only punched me once, I was at fault, even though he punched me and did it before I ever got mad or did anything....so, they called it a game after that. What was actually amusing was that I had a student tell me good job for shoving the guy as apparently he isn't too well-liked or something. Similarly, some other students were telling one of my teammate how they thought it was great that he was backing me up and they really wanted to come to our school for English lessons now. :blink: Which wasn't what I expected from the students hah.

Longwen: Yes, that is what I meant by it being pretty indicative. Most games we have people elbowing us, kicking us, or cheating in general and the referees rarely if ever call a foul on them, but will frequently call a foul on us as foreigners when we've done nothing. What is most telling to me is how, if one of our Chinese teammates did the same thing as a non-Chinese teammate, the Chinese person would not get a foul called yet the foreigner would (at least from my experiences the past year playing here). Thats not to say I haven't had a few games here and there where the game was called fairly and it was lots of fun, but more often than not, it is the other way around.

Luozhen: I'm glad to hear it sounds like my situation may not be indicative of the rest of China. :-)

[LongwenChinese]

I see.

I would hate to generalize China, but I think it is fair to say the following:

China has been a hierarchical society for a very long time. Law and regulations mattered less than what authorities mandated. I guess the player cared about the referee's opinion more than basketball rules. When the referee didn't call a foul on him, he just kept breaking the rules.

Now why didn't the referee call fouls on Chinese people? Maybe he's afraid that Chinese players will accuse him of siding with foreigners?.. :-\ I actually don't know why...I feel like there are very delicate emotions involved in there... :-\

The end sounds funny, though!

[amandagmu]

Now why didn't the referee call fouls on Chinese people? Maybe he's afraid that Chinese players will accuse him of siding with foreigners?.. :-\ I actually don't know why...I feel like there are very delicate emotions involved in there... :-\

Perhaps related to the national humiliation narrative and 东亚病夫。 I wonder if you don't mind disclosing where this occurred? As someone who studies "China" I'd like to know if it's regionally specific.

[GreenArrow45]

Taiyuan, capital of Shanxi Province. I have thought about that explanation, however, I feel like - since most of the people we play against are under 35 or so years old, none of them were really around to experience that. Not to mention, they are only making themselves look worse by doing this rather than rectifying any negative images.

[gato]

Maybe it's Taiyuan, though I hate to generalize about Taiyuan.

[Flying Pigeon]

That's lame that guy was acting like that. Sounds like he needs to be elbowed in the nose.

Fortunately the pick-up basketball games I've played in Xian and Beijing have been more civil. The players have been pretty fair about calling fouls and nobody has been overly aggressive.

Hopefully your next experience playing basketball is more pleasant.

[Carwyn]

From my experience playing basketball in China the violence element of it sounds pretty normal. They play rough, which is why I stopped playing basketball with them.

From my experience with everything else in China the semi-respected figure getting away with it sounds pretty normal too.

Playing football (soccer) I've never run into anything like this. For a game which is aloud more physical contact it has less.

[baishiyuan]

I've played ball my entire life and have played a ton of hoop in Beijing, from outdoor half-court 4v4, to intramural ball at my university between the different departments, to highly competitive games against Beijing Sports University teams. I've encountered a ton of situations like the one you ran into.

As foreigners, when playing against Chinese, we are targets. The Chinese are highly nationalistic and proud people, and they don't like being humiliated at the hands of foreigners. They want to prove that China can stand up to the outside world and if they can't outplay us fairly, they'll resort to dirty play. The better you are at basketball, the larger the bullseye is. Personally, I'm both tall and skilled, and when I step on the court, I'm almost immediately singled out for dirty elbows and forearms, as well as more dangerous tactics, like being undercut when I jump up in the air for rebounds. And if our team gets out to a big lead, it just gets worse and worse until it boils over and one of the foreigners responds.

It's a complicated situation for us. In the States, I wouldn't put up with any of this stuff -- I'd throw an elbow right back. But, anyone who's been in China knows one must keep his cool when dealing with Chinese as one-on-one altercations can quickly turn into ten-on-one gang-ups. Chinese referees on any level won't protect you either. They just swallow their whistles and look the other way while their Chinese country-mates beat the crap out of you for an entire game.

I've found that this situation occurs in casual games against low-level opponents, like the team of gym teachers you played, and in games against high-level competition like Beijing Sports University teams. They all feel they have something to prove.

My advice to you: Avoid organized games with Chinese, unless you've played with the guys beforehand and know that they don't do stuff like this. Believe it or not, there are Chinese who play fairly, you just have to find them.

If you have a team of foreigners looking for full-court run, try to play with other teams of foreigners. There are plenty of universities that have regular crews of foreigners that play ball. It's best to play with them -- chances are much better that they are better at basketball and won't try to injure you (although that's not always the case either.)

Ah, playing ball in Beijing... Good luck.

[amandagmu]

Taiyuan, capital of Shanxi Province. I have thought about that explanation, however, I feel like - since most of the people we play against are under 35 or so years old, none of them were really around to experience that. Not to mention, they are only making themselves look worse by doing this rather than rectifying any negative images.

I wish it was just some past generational thing, but in reality there's been quite a bit of scholarly and journalistic works written on the issue. Remember when people (of all ages) cited the 2008 Olympics as the reason why China would no longer be 东亚病夫？Even though no one outside China (or people who know a lot about China) knows what that means....

[xiaocai]

This thread may help.

[carlo]

Wow. Fortunately I'm crap at basketball, so I've never been singled out for special treatment. Although I've played many non-contact sports in China (volleyball, tennis, badminton etc) and apart from the inevitable comment about it being "an international competition" (国际比赛) because of us joining (not especially funny after you hear it 20 times in a day) I think we've been treated more than fairly, with an above-average number of people inviting us to play, nobody asking us to step off the court when everybody else was rotating on and off, and so on. This despite the fact we won almost all games. Now, I've noticed that basketball seems to attract young male "fenqing"s with a chip on their shoulders about the US, though I may be mistaken.

[simonlaing]

Yeah I think basketball with it's opportunity elbow when someone goes up for a rebound is especially suited to breaking the rules in team sports. When it is Volleyball, you are all on the the same team so players usually work together, though there can be a favoritism by the setter on who gets the ball. Basketball seems to have a 21 sort of anything that the ref doesn't call is ok kind of thing.

In soccer there is some pushing or shoulder nudging but nothing major.

I play ultimate Frisbee with Chinese people which involves calling fouls by the players. It does take some players awhile to realize the different rules, like (basketball style) boxing out is not legal in Ultimate Frisbee. The people who usually play are university students or young professionals, don't know if that makes a difference though.

Going swimming can be tricky especially when it gets crowded and 4 or 5 people per lane you are weaving around people half of the time down the pool.

It is interesting there is not much trash talking in China in my experience. Perhaps it is because I am playing in Chinese/westerner situations. Chinese/Chinese it might be different.

Have fun,

Simon:)