Wuyou?

[Nina]

Does anyone know if Wuyou (Wu2you3)

無 有 (无 有)

is a compound word?

I can't find it listed in any of my dictionaries listed as a compound.

If it is a compound, what is the definition for it?

Thanks-

Nina

[skylee]

Take a look ->

http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-bin/agrep-lindict?query=%B5L&category=wholerecord&boo=or&order=all

120. 無有 [wu2you3], v.t., do not have.

It seems to be a term quite commonly used in buddhist scriptures.

I guess as a noun, it may be translated into nothingness, or the void.

[Quest]

冇有怕

[CBC]

it's not. neither in oral nor in written form.

You might see it in some odd article, but it is very unusual.

Trust a chinese.

[skylee]

Indeed ... trust a Chinese ...

[Nina]

Thanks for the differing opinons. Now I don't know what to think!

A whole philosophy has arisen around that term in Daoism, but they translate it as "non-being" or "non-existence". The idea of striving for non-existence sounds like a departure from this world - death. Or maybe being in a coma.

The two characters Wu and You appear in the Dao De Jing in that order, but I think it was the later esoterics who tried to make it into a concept. I see them as two separate characters.

-Nina

[CBC]

i think you only need to understand it is dialectical law of everything, like yin comes with yang. That's enough. Most chinese don't understand the details in Tao De Jin. No worry!

[Quest]

Most chinese don't understand the details in Tao De Jin. No worry!

I think Nina is studying the Dao De Jing.

[Nina]

Thank you, Quest.

Yes, I've been studying the Dao De Jing for many years. I'm also studying the etymology of all the Chinese characters used in that precious little book. The ancient meanings of the characters can be quite different from the modern ones, so it's been an enjoyable and exhilirating journey.

---Whether or not "most" Chinese understand it or not. :-)

Thanks to all of you here who have been providing such wonderful insights.

-Nina

[Guest Yau]

hey nina, I'm also interested in thoughts of Taoist. (oh, i studied in a taoism school.) What are you studying over years?

[Nina]

Hi Yau-

You went to a Taoist school? How fascinating! I see by your profile that you're in Hong Kong? I've heard that in mainland China they teach Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism together. Was your school Daojia (I think that's the right term) - religious Taoism? Can you please tell me more about it?

I've studied lots of ancient Chinese philosophies/religions, but mostly centered on pre-300BCE China. Laozi, Zhuangzi, Confucius, Mencius, Mozi, etc. For the last couple of years I've working on the Dao De Jing. The English translations seem to be woefully lacking and very one-sided, so I'm researching the more ancient texts found in Mawangdui and Guodian - in Chinese.

My belief is that each person can get a personal message from reading the DDJ in the original (well, as original as we can get ahold of right now), and I'm compiling a workbook which would allow other people to possibly see more clearly into those beautiful ancient words for themselves without having to rely on various translations and interpretations.

I have another question for you - did you get to study the Yangists in school? There seems to be very little information about their ideology available in English. They were kind of discredited, weren't they? Could suggest any books about Yangists?

-Nina

[ralph1414]

Hi Nina,

Just curious - are you studying the text and translation authored by Robert G. Henricks?

[ralph1414]

I just checked on ABEbooks.com where I get most of my books used and found over 10 listings for Fuller's book starting at $14.00

http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?bx=off&sts=t&ds=30&bi=0&an=fuller+michael&tn=introduction+to+literary+chinese&sortby=2

or just abebooks.com to get the home page.

What is the Daoist forum you refer to?

[Nina]

Hi Ralph-

Yes, I'm using both of Henricks' books - theo one with the Mawangdui texts and the one with the Guodian text. Another great book on the Guodian text is The Guodian Laozi, Proceedings of the International Conference, Dartmouth College, May 1998 edited by Sarah Allen and Crispin Williams. The Dartmouth book includes the opinions of other scholars as to how those ancient characters could be rendered into modern forms.

Have you studied the Dao De Jing?

Thanks for the link to Fuller's book!

My favorite Daoist forum is:

http://members.boardhost.com/Zentao00/

It's a very open forum, and we discuss a wide range of topics, including opinions about the ancient Chinese characters. Come on over and check it out. You might even post something. :-)

-Nina

[ralph1414]

Check on home page under "Board Navigation" "log in to check your private messages" on the left side.

I thought other members might not be interested in some of my personal comments and info.

Thanks.

[xiaomawang]

Nina, do you think you could understand 無 有 (无 有) as ' has no & has' and relate them to the whole sentence. Maybe it's more difficult to understand when you pick them out.

[Nina]

Thank you, Xiaomawang!

I agree completely. Some philosophers try to isolate certain compound words like wuyou or wuwei and build a whole ideology around them that probably wasn't the way they were first intended in the ancient scripts.

Besides, there are many more compound Chinese words now than there were in ancient times.

-Nina