When To Haggle in China

[Katja_84]

Hello,

I couldn't find a recent thread for this topic and after having found myself make a mistake on two different occasions in the last couple of weeks (one where I tried to haggle and it didn't appear possible, and one where I realized afterwards that I could perhaps have bargained) I thought it would be good to see what rules other people abide by when it comes to haggling...

I have normally gone by the rule that if there's a price tag you only bargain if you can argue that there is a fault with the product, and even then I wouldn't ask for more than 20% off. When there is not a price tag I would normally bargain, except for food and fruit (unless they give me a price that sounds unreasonable or if they give me a price without weighting the fruit).

When do you bargain and how do you decide whether to do it? Advice would be much appreciated in case my 'rules' do not apply...

[Don_Horhe]

Outside supermarkets and department stores, almost always. Of course, not when buying groceries and stuff at the local shops, but when it comes to clothes, shoes, computers, phones, pretty much anything that can't be eaten, I always haggle - it works wonders for your Chinese.

[anonymoose]

And if you're buying clothes or gift items that don't have an obvious market value, then you should start with 80% off, not 20%.

[skylee]

haggle? it's like impossible to me ...

[johndones]

There is no better advice than telling you to know your prices. There is no definite rule.

If you don't know what you should pay you're always pay too much or not seal the deal, of course there's still luck.

Many foreigners think that they are always paying whatever they call "laowai tax", but my experience is that they are the ones that always haggle over few yuans that make no difference （not to say I have anything agaist it, why pay more?).

[Lu]

What Don Horhe says. Price tags don't always mean anything.

When in doubt, look at the object and hesitate, saying It's kind of expensive... or just plain ask: Can you give me a better price for this? If they then offer to take something off the price, negotiations are open. If you misjudge the other way around, haggle when you aren't supposed to, just politely either buy at the set price or decline and walk off.

Good luck, and have fun!

[Katja_84]

Around where I live in Dongcheng there are a lot of small and medium sized clothes shops with price tags and occasionally signs that state the price. You all haggle at these type of stores too?

Anymoose mentioned to start at 80% below - this is what I do at the markets where you are obviously meant to haggle and where the price stated at the outset is outrageous, but in these shops along the street where I live the quality of the products is sometimes very good (as in the brand stores) and some of them are quite classy. Others are not so classy but I am unsure of what is a reasonable price these days.

If you bargain at these shops, do you still start at 80 % below the price tag? Or are you more moderate in your starting price when you begin to haggle if there is already a price tag on the clothes or the shoes? Even in the West you can get a 10-20% discount by inventing faults with the product but that's all I've asked for in such stores.

I guess it's just as much of a cultural mistake to haggle when you shouldn't, as to not to do so when you should, so I am keen to get this right

[anonymoose]

If you bargain at these shops, do you still start at 80 % below the price tag?

Well, you have to use your judgement. But the point of haggling is that both parties have a starting price, and in theory, you should end up agreeing on somewhere inbetween, right? So, if you start at 20% off, then you're limiting yourself to a maximum of 20% discount, even if the seller accepts your offer straight off (and if they do accept straight away, it probably means you are still being ripped off). On the other hand, if you start at 80%, and you meet the seller half way at 40% off, you are still getting a larger discount than your 20% even though it was nowhere near your opening value.

It also depends on where you are. If you are in an area with lots of foreigners, then the asking price is likely to be more ridiculously high. On the other hand, in areas where foreigners are rare, and most sales go to Chinese people, I think you are less likely to be ripped off. Also, speaking Chinese helps, if you can, as it shows you are familiar with the country, and are not so easily taken for a ride.

[Brian US]

Knowing the prices is the most important thing. As someone mentioned on another thread, even sales people at larger malls have sales quotas. I forget where, but a friend at a nice shopping mall was iffy on a shirt when the sales girl took an extra 20% off.

[Brian US]

Can anyone give me the name of the shopping center with all the Christmas stuff outside? It is just South of Xizhimen and has about three buildings with 5 floors of shopping. I need a last minute birthday gift and forgot how to get there.

[roddy]

西环广场？Not sure if that's the one you mean though, it's not really south - either slightly west or right on top of the subway station. Or do you mean 新世界 at 阜成门？

[Brian US]

It's not those places from just looking at pictures of the area. It's been about six months since I went there and it's not a big shopping mall. Just a typical flea market with stalls. I think all year round they have these creepy Christmas statues outside. The few times I've been there I've seen one foreigner, so a little out of the way. I remember passing Xizhimen from Wudaokou on my scooter, so it is a little south and maybe to the west.

One of my Chinese classmates took me there before, so I'll see if I can contact him. I tend to procrastinate with these things, so I might end up grabbing something at the Carrefour.

[langxia]

Should be Fuwaixikou 阜外西口。 At least that is south from 动物园 and has these figures outisde.

[Brian US]

Thanks! Did some more searching and I think 阜外西口 is one of the bus stops, but it's called 天意批发市场. I know my question is off topic, but it's a nice place to go in west Beijing for random sorts.

[Neil_H]

To give an idea of what can be saved.

In 2006 in Shanghai I bought a wooden roll of wood strips with characters carved into them for 200 yuan. The label price was 3200 yuan!

We offered 200 and they were not interested so we walked away and bought a painting for 250 yuan down from 950. When they saw us spending money they ran over and quickly agreed the sale.

Beijing saw a set of chopsticks offered to me for 300 yuan but bought for 55 yuan.

If serious bargaining needs to be done my wife's mum goes in there and all hell breaks loose with shouting and moaning then a sudden small laugh between her and the seller then back to it again.

It is funny to watch. We tend to go into the shop, see something we like leave then let her know. She goes in 10 minutes later and does the deal so the seller does not thing a foreigner is interested.

I have seen foreginers being cheated. One was after a set of chopsticks and they told him 320. He said in english too much and they dropped it to 290 telling him friend price and all that rubbish. He said 280 and they agreed. I asked them what was the real price of that 40 yuan? They said yes about that.

[gougou]

I have seen foreginers being cheated.[...] He said 280

So he cheated himself?

If you name a price and the other person agrees, it's called a deal - not cheating. If you think the price is too high, you are free to start lower (before they accept, obviously).

I think a lot of people get too obsessed with getting the cheapest price, rather than reaching a price that works for both parties. If somebody believes 280 kuai is a good price for chopsticks (and that should be the only reason to name that price), it doesn't matter that he could have had them for 40 kuai - he should be happy 'cause he got his price!

I find it helpful to remind oneself that most sellers will be able to make much more with the extra money they get than we (="the relatively rich foreigners") would be able to.

[imron]

One was after a set of chopsticks and they told him 320. He said in english too much and they dropped it to 290 telling him friend price and all that rubbish. He said 280 and they agreed.

In 2006 in Shanghai I bought a wooden roll of wood strips with characters carved into them for 200 yuan....When they saw us spending money they ran over and quickly agreed the sale.

Seems like you fell for the same trick ;) If a vendor comes running back and/or quickly agrees to a sale, you've paid too much

[Neil_H]

Hardly. I was with my wife at the time. 200 was a fair price. Not a bargain but when we checked it with local Shanghai friends they thought it was alright.

They did not come running quickly back. This was like 20 minutes later when they saw we were buying a painting.

[imron]

Hardly. I was with my wife at the time.

Again, no guarantee of a fair price either, but it comes down to what Gougou said - if you chose a price that you were happy with and they accepted, then everyone is happy.

That being said I've found I can always get lower prices when not accompanied by a Chinese person. In fact, sometimes it's quite uncomfortable shopping with a Chinese friend as sellers can be quite rude to them when they don't side with the seller in helping extract more money from the foreigner, and then that causes them to be less likely to accept lower prices.

[Brian US]

I think Roddy had a topic asking how our bargaining attitudes change after being in the country for awhile. When I first got here I would fight over every RMB, but now if I'm paying 100+ for a coat I don't bother with 5-10 kuai. Plus, if I'm given a fair price from the start I'll likely just pay.