Etymology of de2/dak1 ?

[benotnobody]

I know this is perhaps a tall order, but I would much appreciate it if someone could tell me a little about the etymology of the character for "de2" (Cantonese "dak1") meaning "virtue". (Sorry, the computer I am using presently has no Chinese text support.)

The research is for one of my Chinese projects at school. I would have researched it myself except I have been ill for the last week, and as such have had no access to my books and materials at school.

All I have noticed is that it has the character for moral and the radical for steps in it.

[Nina]

Hi Benotnobody-

Here are some of my notes - maybe they'll be helpful.

德 dé (te) De (perfection of the heart / mind)



1-彳 The steps of 直 a perfected 心 heart / mind.



2-直 A straight 彳 footstep from 心 the heart / mind.



Components:


彳 chì (ch'ih) a person stepping forward with the left foot. Motion.


直 zhí (chih) straight, forthright, straightforward. 目 The eyes having looked at something 十 did not find any deviation. Before the invention of the square and plumb-line, ten eyes were called on to test the straightness of the frame of a house.


心 xīn (hsin) heart / mind. A picture of the physical human heart. "It shows the pericardium opened, the lobes and the aorta below." -Wilder. Xīn, although depicted as a physical heart, was used to refer to the heart-mind connection. It represents both the emotions and the intellect united. It was the heart rather than the brain which was considered to think in ancient China.



德 dé was originally written 悳, without the 彳 footstep. It simply meant perfection of the heart / mind. 彳 chì was later added, possibly to show how it isn't enough to have a perfected heart without allowing it to reach out and touch others.



De is usually translated as "virtue, morality, ethics". In English "virtue" is thought of as kindness and goodness. Another definition of "virtue" is "the nature of a thing". as in "by virtue of". Most philosophers in ancient China believed that a person's natural inclination would be to be kind to everyone and everything; it was only through training and education that a person found how and why to be cruel. Following that train of thought, "a straight footstep from the heart / mind" would be virtuous.


-Nina


[Nina]

The last part should read:

"a straight footstep from the heart / mind" would be virtuous.


[Altair]

Another take on the issue of "virtue" is that it originally meant the power by which certain results were achieved, rather than moral correctness. This idea is another way to look at what the phrase "by virtue of" means.

"Cultivating virtue" would then mean cultivating that powerful part of one's essence that obtains results in the world. This idea would then be related to the meaning "obtain" that the Chinese word still has. From the meaning "obtain" would come the use of this word as an auxilary verb indicating potential, i.e., the "power" that a particular action has to "obtain" a particular result.

[Nina]

(Encoding - Unicode UTF-8 )

Hi Altair-

De2 "obtain" is a different character:

得 dé (te) get, obtain

I've heard the definition "power" used for 德 dé before, but I think it's more of a philosophical interpretation. It seems to be a masculine concept - that if your heart/mind is perfect, you'll have some sort of power? IMO the only power a person actually has is the ability to cultivate their hearts, bringing their minds and hearts into such perfect alignment that everything they do comes from who they truly are. Their de2 then shines like a beacon into the natural hearts of others.

I guess I just don't want any power. :-)

-Nina

[Altair]

Hi Nina,

De2 "obtain" is a different character:

Woops. I forgot about this. I had read somewhere that these words were likely cognates, and so I skipped right over the fact that they are indeed separate characters.

As for whether interpreting 德 dé as "power" is a masculine concept, I think you may have inadvertently hit upon an interesting coincidence.

The word "virtue" comes from the Latin word "virtus," which meant not only "moral excellence," but also "bravery" and "manliness." The root "vir" meant "man" and is related to the "were" in "werewolf" (i.e., wolfman). As far as I know, the Chinese equivalents were always gender neutral, but the connection between "power" and "moral excellence" is again striking.

When you say:

IMO the only power a person actually has is the ability to cultivate their hearts, bringing their minds and hearts into such perfect alignment that everything they do comes from who they truly are. Their de2 then shines like a beacon into the natural hearts of others.

,

I think you are really saying the same thing. "Moral excellence" equals "potency."

By the way, the connection between the word "virtue" and "active principle," "potency," or "power" was also expressed in the opening of the Canterbury tales, where Chaucer says (in translation): "When April with its sweet showers...has bathed every vein in that liquor from whose virtue flowers are brought forth."

[Nina]

Hi Altair-

That's an interesting history for the word "virtue". Thank you.

It makes me wonder who came up with the English word "virtue" as a definition for de2 in the first place. I know those missionaries were hard at work trying to translate Chinese into English long before anyone else had the opportunity, and some of those definitions stuck. I can see how a Jesuit would see "perfection of the heart" as being translated into "virtue". But I don't think the missionaries actually "saw" the process of the thinking Chinese mind at the time. That would be like asking a cat to think like the goldfish he is stalking in its bowl.

I don't like to use the word "virtue" for de2, but I acquiesce because it seems to be so commonly accepted nowadays. I just try to open up people's minds to seeing it a little differently - however, I could be entirely wrong.

As for gender - I think it's PC (politically correct) in these modern times to say that there was no gender specificity in ancient Chinese texts, but you have to remember that women weren't allowed to learn to read or write in those times. I believe that all of the texts were written by men for men, but that's cool. As a woman, when I read those texts realizing they were written for men, it gives me more understanding about where they were coming from.

As for "potency" and "power", I still don't think that connecting with de2 provides that. Power and potency reek of control. But then you and I may be talking apples and oranges. To me, connecting with de2 means realizing that there is nothing that needs or wants to be controlled. It's lesrning how to duck your head in the instant when an axe might be trying to decapitate you. But then, I'm more of a Yangist. :-)

-Nina