Traditional vs Simplified characters

[Johnny20270]

seemed like a very smart move to me to simplify the character set. I presume its mainly politics that stops non HK, Taiwan etc from following suit

 

Like many things in life, politics often gets in the way of common sense (as decided by the general population of course, not me)

 

Thoughts on why they won't change?

[Shelley]

Thoughts on why they won't change?

 

New topic maybe?

[Johnny20270]

New topic maybe?

 

 

Sorry, thats odd, originally I saw one page here, now there is 11! ... and the thread disappeared a minute ago, now its back 

 

Yes, ignore my question, its just going off in a tangent

[edelweis]

uh it looks like the mods have merged Thiago's thread into this one hehe.

[Shelley]

I think it is, in Taiwan's case, a matter of keeping things separate and retaining the culture of pre-communist china. I understand Taiwan likes to think of its self as the "real" china and I would suspect keeping traditional characters goes along with this.

 

So for this reason I think Taiwan is very unlikely to change and if reunification ever happens I suspect they would still maintain traditional characters and even try to bring PRC round to their way of thinking.

 

Personally I prefer traditional characters for the information they contain and the link back through history and being able to read old (not necessarily classical) Chinese, but as I am learning mainland Chinese I am learning simplified.

 

I have studied the differences and am aware of the radicals and other components that have been simplified so I can apply the information contained in the traditional character to the simplified character so I feel as if I am getting the best of both worlds

[Lu]

seemed like a very smart move to me to simplify the character set. I presume its mainly politics that stops non HK, Taiwan etc from following suit

Or the fact that if your entire populations knows one character set, it's an enormous amount of hassle to change that and you need a very, very good reason to try and do so. Much as the spelling of English is unlikely to change, even though it's hopelessly convoluted. And much as the Dutch Taalunie ('language union') gets a huge amount of pushback every time they change the Dutch spelling rules.

[Johnny20270]

Or the fact that if your entire populations knows one character set, it's an enormous amount of hassle to change that and you need a very, very good reason to try and do so.

 

 

 

er, ..... they did it before Lu

 

can be done again, if the will and desire is there!

[roddy]

Was probably a lot easier to change the character set when nobody could read. 

 

Everyone knows they're not allowed to post in here until they've read all 11 pages, don't they?

[Lu]

er, ..... they did it before Lu

can be done again, if the will and desire is there!

Taiwan and Hong Kong? Really? When was that?

[Geiko]

@Lu, I think Johnny was just referring to mainland China. You said that "if your entire populations knows one character set, it's an enormous amount of hassle to change that", and he said that's already happened, although as roddy pointed out, the low literacy rate of China one century ago made that change much less painful. 

 

@Johnny, I think the key is in what you yourself said: "can be done again, if the will and desire is there!" Taiwan and Hong Kong don't want to change to simplified characters, traditional ones work well and people feel emotionally attached to them, so why would they change it? From my point of view, the main advantage of simplified over traditional is in handwriting. If you type on a computer, I don't see that much difference between both character sets. 

[oceancalligraphy]

The Nationalist government (KMT) proposed 300+ simplified characters in the 1930s, when it was the ruling government of China, but it was never implemented. There will always be opinions on both sides to the debate.

 

I do not think traditional characters will ever go away, just as all scripts since oracle bones will not go away. Different scripts from the past are still in use. Seal script is still carved for chops. Etymologists continue to study the origins and evolution of characters. Calligraphers continue to bring these past scripts to life. Sure, these old scripts are not widely used, and may not be mainstream, but they continue to be part of the language.

[Johnny20270]

@Johnny, I think the key is in what you yourself said: "can be done again, if the will and desire is there!" Taiwan and Hong Kong don't want to change to simplified characters, traditional ones work well and people feel emotionally attached to them, so why would they change it? From my point of view, the main advantage of simplified over traditional is in handwriting. If you type on a computer, I don't see that much difference between both character sets. 

 

 

 

Indeed yes,thanks for clarifying it. I was curious if there it was politics stopping it (such as not wanting to follow suit with China) or do Taiwan and Hong Kong want to keep traditional characters for well.... "sake of tradition" or as you say emotional attachment etc. 

[roddy]

It's not even an issue that enters the consciousness of the vast majority of folk in Taiwan or Hong Kong. It'd be like wandering around the UK trying to get us to start driving on the other side of the road to come into line with the Continent or adopt the Dvorak keyboard or learn Esperanto. Or getting the US to go decimal. Current system is good enough for purpose, changing would mean loads of effort and little gain. 

[Johnny20270]

i see, thanks Roddy

 

I see that there were further proposals to simplify Mainland Chinese characters set but never taken up, nor officially dropped. Interesting

[Silent]

 

 

It's not even an issue that enters the consciousness of the vast majority of folk in Taiwan or Hong Kong.

Probably true. When Hong Kong (and Macau) loose their special status, as part of their transition back to China, there is a good chance that a push to change will occur. Pushing simplified during primary education and ignoring traditionals combined with all official documentation in simplified is likely to eradicate traditional characters in a couple of generations.

 

Different scenario's are possible, but I would not be surprised if traditional characters in Hong Kong are largely gone within our lifetimes. 

[Flickserve]

HK parents are very pragmatic. If there was convincing proof that learning in simplified form raises the overall level of Chinese in HK kids to reach the same standard as mainland kids, then you will see the change.

[XiaoXi]

I think the key is in what you yourself said: "can be done again, if the will and desire is there!" Taiwan and Hong Kong don't want to change to simplified characters, traditional ones work well and people feel emotionally attached to them, so why would they change it? From my point of view, the main advantage of simplified over traditional is in handwriting. If you type on a computer, I don't see that much difference between both character sets. 

 

The main difference is obviously on computers. Its the difference between a load of squashed mosquitoes and clear Chinese characters. I even had Taiwanese admit half the time they can't recognise the characters on screen because they are so tiny and yet so complex, so most of the time they have to guess what the character is from the context.

 

I think it is, in Taiwan's case, a matter of keeping things separate and retaining the culture of pre-communist china. I understand Taiwan likes to think of its self as the "real" china and I would suspect keeping traditional characters goes along with this.

 

If Taiwan want to be the real China with regard to language they need to work on their pronunciation first I think!  他们要好好缩话。

[skylee]

他们要好好缩话。

This looks really bad. Why would someone who writes something like "他们要好好缩话" qualify to comment on Taiwanese people's pronunciation I don't know. It feels really bad to read it on this website. And XiaoXi is saying how Taiwan should behave to be the real China. What makes anyone think that Taiwan wants to be real China?

[XiaoXi]

This looks really bad. Why would someone who writes something like "他们要好好缩话" qualify to comment on Taiwanese people's pronunciation I don't know. It feels really bad to read it on this website. And XiaoXi is saying how Taiwan should behave to be the real China. What makes anyone think that Taiwan wants to be real China? 

 

Well if you read I was responding to someone who said that Taiwan wants to be the real China. It was just an obvious joke. Especially if they really are as was said, that they think themselves as the 'real' China.