他是前天写来的信。

[edelweis]

This is a sample sentence from "Grammar without tears". But what does it mean :blink:

Does it mean "he wrote to me the day before yesterday" ?

Also this one: 他是刚打来的电话。

Is it: "He just gave me a phone call" ?

[SiMaKe]

I believe these are 是。。。的 constructions (which is used for emphasis). If so, the first would be: It was the day before yesterday that he wrote to me. As in response to something like "was it yesterday or the day before yesterday that he wrote to me?". The second one would be: It was just now that he called (in response to "and when did he call?") .

[edelweis]

Thank you SiMaKe, it is clear now.

[renzhe]

I have to admit that this construction looks very strange to me. :unsure:

[SiMaKe]

I have to admit that this construction looks very strange to me. :unsure:

Based on your other forum entries, I'm fairly sure your Chinese is much more advanced than mine. So I would be very interested to learn why this looks strange to you. Is it because the direct object follows the 的? Or are my examples off-point?

Thanks for any insight.

[skylee]

It is strange to me too (as Mandarin is not my mother tongue). But I reckon it is very common.

[SiMaKe]

It is strange to me too (as Mandarin is not my mother tongue). But I reckon it is very common.

Same question that I asked renzhe. I am quite interested to know why you find it strange. Is it that most native speakers don't use it at all or that they use the shortened form (omitting the 是)?

As before, any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

[renzhe]

I'm a learner, and I've never spent a really long period of time in China, so my opinion does not necessarily mean much. Maybe it's common and I don't know it. I've never seen it before, that's all. I either read it like 他是。。。信, or 他是。。。写来的. To me, it literally means "He is the letter that was written the day before yesterday".

Is it colloquial? I don't remember seeing it written, but that doesn't mean too much either.

I'd say 这是他前天写来的信. This is the letter (that he wrote the day before yesterday).

[Altair]

My Chinese is nowhere near the level of the preceding posters, but I was surprised to see 来 before 的. I would have guessed that these sentences would be:

他（是）前天写信来的 or

他（是）前天写的信来 (although I wonder if this doesn't imply "wrote the letter," rather than "wrote (a) letter(s)."

他（是）冈冈打电话来的 or

他（是）冈冈打的电话来 （although I again wonder if this does not imply something like "It was just now that he made the call," rather than "It was just now that he called.)

I also would have guessed that 冈 would have to be doubled in this case.

[renzhe]

I must point out that you should not overrate my ability, as it will mislead people. I am intermediate, and I make lots of mistakes.

I learn a lot from these discussions, so I will say if something looks strange to me, hoping for useful replies. I'm very happy when somebody proves me wrong with a solid reference and a clear explanation.

[jiangping]

I vaguely remember learning this rule when the 是...的... pattern was very first taught to me, and then subsequently putting it out of mind and indiscriminately using 的 at the end of everything. Having just looked it up in my old textbook (Colloquial Chinese), it says that when there is a direct object it is possible to put it before the 的, but more usually the direct object will be placed last, as in:

我是下午買的票 "It was in the afternoon that I bought the ticket".

The only exception is if the direct object is a pronoun, in which case the 的 comes last instead.

[jbradfor]

Humm. My first reading of "他是前天写来的信" was along the lines of "he is yesterday's news" (well, day-before-yesterday's letter, actually), meaning that no one care about him anymore. Anyone like this translation?

[anonymoose]

One example sentence given in my grammar book is 他不是在商店买的面包, which is similar to sentence given by the OP.

[Zomac]

It is strange to me too (as Mandarin is not my mother tongue). But I reckon it is very common.

This grammar structure "是.... 的" seems to apply in Cantonese too, like 佢係尋日來既. Hmm, but the sentence should end with "的".

[Shi Tong]

I agree that the "shi4"是 in this sentence is really strange- usually to say 他是 means "he is" so, to say "he is the day before yesterday's the letter he wrote came" is really odd to me.

I would omit the 是 and make it 他前天写来的信- the letter he wrote to me the day before yesterday, or go down renzhe's route and say 这是他前天写来的信- though of course this is a slightly different meaning because this means "this is" the letter he wrote the day before yesterday.

My personal perspective of this is that it's colloquial- a bit like the way that in Taiwan 不客气 has gone from that to 不用客气 then to 不用.

Clearly 不用 is "wrong", but it's shortened from 不用客气 which was born out of 不客气.

Put it this way, I've never heard of 他是前天写来的信, though jbradfor's translation is actually pretty cool ;)

[anonymoose]

Clearly 不用 is "wrong", but it's shortened from 不用客气 which was born out of 不客气.

Why is 不用 clearly wrong?

As far as I understand, 不用 simply means "you needn't", and if said in response to 谢谢, then I would rather interpret it as an abreviation of 不用谢.

[Shi Tong]

anon..

Yep, true, the "" around the wrong were meant to show that I think that gramatically or officially this is probably considered incorrect (that the full version- as either 不用谢 or 不用客气 is correct) because the utterance of 不用 on it's own means "no need" as you said- which means that if you say "thanks" and you're replied to with "no need" you might not understand, or the meaning might not be clear.

Remember that 用 also means "use", so 不要用 means "dont use", making 不用 possibly confusing or incorrect.

However, this doesn't have much to do with the subject, I was using it as an example of how I think this could be colloquial useage.

[edelweis]

hmmm just to make things clearer: the original examples were from the "shi...de" structure explanation.

The book explains that the object, if not a pronoun, can be placed either before or after "de":

我是去年来的北京。

我是去年来北京的。

Then it explains that the direction complement, if any, must be placed before "de":

他是今天早上回大使馆来的。

她和孩子是上个星期到欧洲去的。

他是前天写来的信。

他是刚打来的电话。

The meaning of the complement of direction was actually the part I was unsure of.

[anonymoose]

The meaning of the complement of direction was actually the part I was unsure of.

The directional complement is just the 来 or 去 before the 的.

[Altair]

Of my grammar books that directly address the issue of using 的 with directional complements, one says:

Unless the object is a pronoun or the verb has a directional complement, it is possible for the 的 to come before the object; e.g., 他是在书店买的这枝笔 ... "it was in the store that he bought this pen.' However, you will find the 的 after the object in most prose texts. 是 may be omitted when it is felt that the context makes the structure clear without it.

Another book says:

If the verb is followed by a directional complement or a locative expression, 的 comes at the end.

你是从哪儿借来这些书的？

Where did you check out these books?

我是坐飞机到上海去的。

I went to Shanghai by plane.