Hong Kong And Shenzhen Or....

[Erbse]

Let's say you could choose between two options:

A: Stay and work in the West for 2 years, save up money, then go to a Chinese school/university for 0.5 year

B: Stay and work in Hong Kong for 2.5 years and visit nearby cities like Shenzhen and Guangzhou whenever there is a long weekend, hopefully once a month.

Which option would be better for my Mandarin Chinese (I'm not interested in Cantonese)?

[jbradfor]

Hell with your Chinese, which is more interesting to you to live in, where you are now, or Hong Kong? Personally, given a choice, I'd love to go to Hong Kong for a year or two, but that's probably not in the cards for me.

But you probably want an answer. How much class do you think you would take during the 2 years you stayed in the west while you were working? How much class do you think you would take if you were in Hong Kong while you were working? What level are you at now?

[Erbse]

Hong Kong would be great fun, staying in the West would be better for my career. And there are of course a number of other things....

I'm trying to figure out how much of a difference it would be for my Chinese. I do well here with my self study of Chinese, but the lack of Chinese natives here has put me into a position where my reading is way ahead of my speaking/listening. In spoken Chinese I can talk about myself, what happened yesterday and what are my plans. Yet still not able to follow all the everyday gossip, only sometimes. Regarding my reading skill, I just finished all the Chinese Breeze books (300 and 500 hanzi levels).

How much class....

If I knew, I probably wouldn't ask. Maybe we have someone here on the forums, who also stayed in HK and tried to learn Chinese at the same time?

edit: maybe I'm just looking for a kind of confirmation, that there are a lot of options in HK/Shenzhen/Guangzhou to bring on my Chinese, so that it is worth taking a hit on my career.

[signs]

Are yuou currently living in HK? Why not work in Guangzhou or Shenzen for a couple of years? That way, you'd get a supplement income whilst learn the language at the same time

[sebhk]

... maybe I'm just looking for a kind of confirmation, that there are a lot of options in HK/Shenzhen/Guangzhou to bring on my Chinese, so that it is worth taking a hit on my career.

Hong Kong: Very limited, unless you do cross border business, live with exchange students from China, or go to Disneyland / Ocean Park. Many Hong Kong people can understand Mandarin, but prefer to speak Cantonese or English.

Shenzhen: Yes, the vast majority there speaks Mandarin.

Guangzhou: Yes, but more Cantonese speakers than in Shenzhen.

If I knew, I probably wouldn't ask. Maybe we have someone here on the forums, who also stayed in HK and tried to learn Chinese at the same time?

I learned Mandarin while living in Hong Kong. Never had much opportunity to use it within Hong Kong outside the class room.

[roddy]

Would it actually take two years to fund a semester of Chinese study? I'd say you should either think about saving harder, or planning to fund yourself with a bit of English teaching or something.

[wushijiao]

I think you could, quite conceivably, go to Shenzhen on most weekends and practice your Mandarin with locals if you lived in HK. Given that you would study an equal amount in the two locations (HK and home), moving to HK would certainly be the better option. You might also add that, by living in HK and by learning characters at the same time, you'll get added reinforcement in reading (assuming that you're like me, and read subway signs, billboards...etc).

One thing to note, however, is that I'd imagine that if you did move to HK and took lots of trips up to Shenzhen, your transactional Chinese (buying stuff, telling taxis where to go...etc) might get pretty good. However, after a while, you might find that you tend to have the same sort of conversations again and again, and I'm not sure to what extent you'd get good at "gossip" type of Chinese. Nonetheless, getting good at "transactional" Chinese shouldn't be underestimated, since it can build a basic base of listening and speaking that can be expanded into other areas.

However, I couldn't tell you how to balance that with the rest of your life and career. If you're developing a good career, you might not want to take that for granted either. Good luck!

[Erbse]

Are yuou currently living in HK?

Not yet, but I should make a decision within 2 months.

Why not work in Guangzhou or Shenzen for a couple of years?

I studied computer science, and IT jobs on the mainland don't pay particularly well, unless I have a lot of experience and can get a senior position.

Would it actually take two years to fund a semester of Chinese study? I'd say you should either think about saving harder, or planning to fund yourself with a bit of English teaching or something.

This is my first job after graduating, so I do want to work in my first job 2 years straight, so I don't look like an job hopper. After 2 years in Germany money-wise I could probably afford 3 years of full time study in China, but I think I do not want a gap bigger than 6 months in my CV. Yet it is probably to early to get a well paid senior position in mainland at that point.

I learned Mandarin while living in Hong Kong. Never had much opportunity to use it within Hong Kong outside the class room.

This reinforces my impression from my previous short visit to HK.

I think you could, quite conceivably, go to Shenzhen on most weekends and practice your Mandarin with locals if you lived in HK.

I wonder how much time it takes to get from Hong Kong to Shenzhen. By that I don't mean just the duration of the MTR ride alone, but something like the total time for

MTR ride to Shenzhen -> get a hotel room -> get to city center / bars / whatever place to meet people.

I have this idea of going to Shenzhen Friday evening after work or if tired maybe Saturday morning, and get back to HK at Sunday. Long weekends would allow me to go to other cities like Guangzhou, or maybe even use the night train to some other city.

One thing to note, however, is that I'd imagine that if you did move to HK and took lots of trips up to Shenzhen, your transactional Chinese (buying stuff, telling taxis where to go...etc) might get pretty good.

Including a nice southern accent, which I wouldn't mind really, because I dislike these 儿 sounds.

However, I couldn't tell you how to balance that with the rest of your life and career. If you're developing a good career, you might not want to take that for granted either. Good luck!

Yea, finally I have to decide by myself

[Yang Rui]

I would go for the 2 years in Germany, then 0.5 years in China proper. I lived in HK for two years and didn't use Mandarin much. Realistically, it would be difficult to get to the mainland that often unless you work very flexible hours. I worked Monday to Friday, and only went to Shenzhen every now and then, despite having friends and family there. Although it's convenient to get there, unless you are actually living there, it might be hard to get into society and make friends, as other commenters have said. I just think that once you're in HK, it would take a lot of willpower and effort to visit SZ or GZ that often.

The downside of the above is that China is changing very fast, and in two years it might not be as fun as it is now. It might just be nostalgia, but i feel that a lot of the more charming aspects of China are disappearing as it modernises.

[Erbse]

Although it's convenient to get there,

Is it? That's part of my question. I also have to spend time on getting a new visa regularly. I guess it takes quite some energy to get things rolling.

it might be hard to get into society and make friends

socializing is one of my strong points.

The downside of the above is that China is changing very fast, and in two years it might not be as fun as it is now. It might just be nostalgia, but i feel that a lot of the more charming aspects of China are disappearing as it modernises.

Shenzhen is pretty far ahead already. So I better take a semester course in two years in some remote city.

[anonymoose]

Something to consider would be what your long-terms goals regarding Chinese are. Suppose you decide on either of the two options you mentioned, then what after that? Do you intend to continue with your career in Germany, or do something that might involve China somehow?

The reason that I ask is that, whilst you would undoubtedly be able to improve your spoken Chinese substantially in either situation, within six months in the mainland, and I guess a couple of years in Hong Kong, you are still unlikely to achieve a level where you could communicate comfortably. Therefore, I suspect that if you return to Germany, you will still have the same sense of frustration that you are currently experiencing.

My point is basically that I think you would be better off doing whatever gives you better career prospects in the future. If Chinese is just a hobby, then if you are like me at least, no matter how good you get, you will still wish you had more time or opportunity to get better. But at some stage, you have to say to yourself enough is enough, and put your career first, or find a way of combining Chinese with your career. Otherwise you will end up sacrificing your career just for the sake of something that has little practical value.

[Erbse]

I want to spend a major part of my future in China, because I can't live without Hot Pot. Every day I go the city here in Germany and I'm pretty annoyed by the lack of Chinese food. It's so disheartening.

I want to move up career wise, so that in five to seven years from now I can get some senior position in HK, Taiwan or mainland with a western payroll. I think to achieve that I need both: proper IT skills and proper Chinese.

[anonymoose]

Fair enough.

But an easier way would be to just get your own hotpot, throw in a few chillies and off you go.

But I suspect you're also looking for a chinese girl.

Well, I suggest you take the Hong Kong option then. At least you get a foothold into the region.

[Erbse]

But an easier way would be to just get your own hotpot, throw in a few chillies and off you go.

Hot Pot is not Hot Pot unless being in a Chinese Restaurant with hundreds of Chinese and loud shouting in Chinese.

But I suspect you're also looking for a chinese girl.

true

Well, I suggest you take the Hong Kong option then. At least you get a foothold into the region.

I'm not quite convinced if the foodhold argument is that strong.

[anonymoose]

I'm not quite convinced if the foodhold argument is that strong.

Well, I must admit I don't know much about the IT sector in China, or in general for that matter, but I suspect that getting a well-paid job in China isn't as easy as just sending off your CV to some company from Germany.

If you study in China full-time for six months, you may be able to make contacts then, but if not, then you'll be back in Germany with no leads.

On the other hand, if you can get a job in Hong Kong in the IT sector, then I suspect that moving over to the mainland from there would be a lot easier. At least probably a lot of the contacts you make in Hong Kong will extend over the border.

Anyway, as I say, I don't know much about this, so I'll shut up now.

[Yang Rui]

But I suspect you're also looking for a chinese girl.

Very perceptive.

[jbradfor]

Have you considered Taiwan? They have a very developed IT industry, they speak Mandarin, they have hotpot, and, yes, the have single females . What more could you ask for in a country?

Just curious: how much time have you spend in China (or Hong Kong or Taiwan)?

[Erbse]

So far I've spent 7 months in mainland and 3 months in HK.

Part of this was an internship where I spent 3 months in mainland and 3 in HK. Unfortunately then I didn't really check out the Chinese learning opportunities. My Chinese should be way better than it is right now. Have been learning on and off for 3.5 years and I want to change something about it.

I haven't seen any job opportunities for fresh graduates in Taiwan that offer an acceptable payment. There is still a difference between Taiwan and HK, and on top of it the HK tax rate is lower.

[dolldalera]

If it's a choice between those two options, then opt for the work first then half a year in China. You'll definitely learn more Mandarin that way, as compared to living in Hong Kong then making frequent trips to China. I guess you can learn some Mandarin in Hong Kong, but it won't be the same as immersing yourself in a Mandarin environment for half a year. At most, your frequent trips will teach you a few phrases, nothing overtly helpful.

[jbradfor]

Personally, I would recommend Taiwan or China. IMHO, the salary for the first couple of years of working is less important than the skills you get out of it. If learning Mandarin is important to you, and learning to do business in China is important to you, then it seems to me you should focus on that, and focus less on salary.