Using Newspapers To Learn

[Glenn]

I've seen it mentioned a few times here that the writing in newspapers isn't very good, and they should be avoided if you want to exposure to good Chinese (or I guess well-written Chinese). But I was wondering: is this just an issue on the mainland? For instance, do Taiwanese newspapers also display the same sort of bad writing? Are there any newspapers that have good writing? I tend to read news stories via Google's Taiwan page, which links to various sites like 自由時報, 世界新聞網, 中國評論新聞網, 中央日報, and even a traditional version of 新華網. Is anyone familiar enough with any of these to saw whether the writing is decent enough for a learner to be exposed to? It seems like at least 新華社 would have decent writing...

[jbradfor]

[i don't know the answer to your question, but I'm not going to let that stop me from posting. And I hope that in doing so I will annoy someone else that knows the answer enough to post a correction, and then you will have your answer. Thanks are not required.]

My take is that not all mainland newspapers are lacking in writing quality. What they are lacking is journalistic quality. That is, the level of freedom in investigating stories, the aim to be balanced, etc, is not what one would hope for. So you can still read them for improving reading, although not always for the content.

That said, I consider reading newspapers to be someone of a separate skill from reading fiction. Newspapers tend to be very terse, and tend to use a one-character word when fiction would use a two-character word. Since two-character words are much less ambiguous, for those of us not familiar with all the possible shades of meaning of a given character, newspapers are much harder to read due to the ambiguity.

[gato]

Reading newspapers should be helpful to learning formal writing style. Just be careful with the purple prose that's prevalent in Chinese writing. To some degree, you should "when in Rome, do as the Romans do", but some principles of writing should be universal. Purple prose is evil whatever language it is in.

[simonlaing]

Reading newspapers should be helpful to learning formal writing style. Just be careful with the purple prose that's prevalent in Chinese writing. To some degree, you should "when in Rome, do as the Romans do", but some principles of writing should be universal. Purple prose is evil whatever language it is in.

Ｉthink it varies a lot. If it talks even tangently to something to do with politics it is just easier to use the same words and phrases as the the party. Remember every newspaper in the mainland has a full time censor employed there.

Also you should understand that journalists are sometimes similar to waiters in China as in many of them work for tips. (This may be different in the South China post or HK papers ) But I had a friend who was a journalist at a fairly popular Chinese paper Yangtze Wanbao, she had a low salary of about 2,000 yuan a month and was expected to get 2,000- 4,000 extra from kick back appreciation on covering certain companies. Thus most articles about certain companies are positive and sometimes over do it on the positive adjectives. In addition, some companies pay for space for ads written by the companies themselves posing as advertisements.

But there are a lot newspapers out there. For int'l affairs I think there is a military newspaper that has good material (vocabulary about current affairs).

I like using online newspapers and using a popup reader as if I hit a word I get stuck on it can help me pop up the definition and pronunciation.

That said I have read some pretty good investigative translated and untranslated works on the NorthEastSouthWest blog. Host in HK and pretty good.

But still it is straight foward writing.

Have fun,

Simon:)

[Glenn]

Just be careful with the purple prose that's prevalent in Chinese writing.

I take it "purple prose" is pretty much the same as propoganda? I get that, but that's not was I was asking about. Anyway, would that be as much of a problem with Taiwanese papers? They're kind of outside censorship range, aren't they?

My question was more about the quality of the language used in newspapers. I've seen it mentioned that they use sloppy wording, or just strange Chinese. I think kenny2006woo has mentioned this a few times, and I think some others as well. For instance, they'll write things that may be considered ungrammatical even (or at least questionable), and learners should stick with novels written by good writers instead, and stay away from newspapers.

I'm more interested in the language itself than the message being conveyed. I tend to take the mainland ones with a grain of salt anyway. But if they're helpful for learning formal writing, as gato said, I guess I'll stick with them for a while (i.e., newspapers, not necessarily mainland ones).

[jbradfor]

I take it "purple prose" is pretty much the same as propaganda?

I'm not sure how gato intended it, but "purple prose" usually refers to overly flowery or ornate writing. It could be propaganda as well, but it doesn't have to be.

[anonymoose]

learners should stick with novels written by good writers instead, and stay away from newspapers.

I think it depends on what one is learning Chinese for. If you want to be able to read novels, then using novels for learning is obviously a good idea. Likewise, if you will be reading newspapers, then practicing with newspapers will be advantageous. Even if the language used is questionable (which, as a learner, I can't say I've noticed especially), then getting used to reading questionable language is also necessary. But in any case, the language used in novels and newspapers is quite different, so if you want a general appreciation of Chinese, then I'd suggest learning from as wide a variety of sources as possible. Also, apart from newspapers and novels, there are magazines like 读者 which are quite good as learning tools.

[Glenn]

Those are fair points. I suppose I should be thinking more in terms of the use of the style of language. For example, novel writing for artistic language, newspaper writing for... well, newspaper language, and blog/chat/conversational writing for more everyday language. When you put it that way it makes pretty good sense, despite how questionable any of them may be.

I'm not sure how gato intended it, but "purple prose" usually refers to overly flowery or ornate writing. It could be propaganda as well, but it doesn't have to be.

Ah, I did not know that. I'm trying to remember if I've ever come across the phrase now. I don't think I have.

[gato]

jbradfor is right. Purple prose refers to flowery prose. Modern Chinese prose hasn't gone through the reform that English has. If you look at English essays from 200 years ago, it's obvious that they are much more flowery than those written today. There has been more of a slimming process in American writing particularly, which may owe a great deal to Strunk & White's Elements of Style.

Chinese students are taught that adjective- and adverb-laden prose, using big words, whereas I believe the standard advice in American English writing nowadays is to focus on the verbs. There is also a lot more of description about how one is feeling in Chinese writing. It's mostly due to teaching to the test, as college entrance mainland China typically require writing 抒情 (expression of feeling) essays. Students get in the habit of writing this way, and people's tastes are influenced by this teaching. What is worse is that because there is political review in essay exams (referred to as 思想健康 in the classroom), students are taught not to write about anything negative and just fake the emotions.

See this:

http://www.copyblogger.com/purple-prose/

Does Your Writing Suffer from Purple Overload?

by Sherice Jacob

"I have a pair of invisible wings" (我有一双隐形的翅膀) was the prompt for the 2009 college entrance exam essay question in Beijing. To a Westerner, it probably sounds like a headline from The Onion.

http://www.neworiental.org/publish/portal0/tab1059/info354209.htm

从文化的情智差异看高考作文命题嬗变

2009-06-26 07:51:39

　　当然，我们同样不能片面地看待我国高考命题与欧美作文命题之间的差距。换一个角度看，欧美命题也存在不足，那就是对抒情和审美的扼杀。面对一个诗情洋溢的题目，在中国学生看来，可以轻而易举地落笔成文，而一个欧美考生则可能觉得摸不着头脑。例如，北京卷“我有一双隐形的翅膀”一题，在一个英国人眼中，居然引起了这样的自卑感：

[SiMaKe]

Ah, I did not know that. I'm trying to remember if I've ever come across the phrase now. I don't think I have.

Thanks from me as well. I've only heard the phrase used to describe language found in such places as modern romance novels as described in the Wikipedia article on "purple prose":

"Modern instances of purple prose can often be found in romance novels. These started alluding to sex in the 1970s, and authors, not wanting to be either pornographic or clinical in their descriptions, developed many euphemisms to describe body parts and sexual activity."

I think we can safely assume this is not the type of purple prose being discussed here.:rolleyes:

[jbradfor]

And what are you doing reading modern romance novels

I just read that now, and I guess it's a judgment call, but personally I would consider those examples in romance novels to be euphemisms, not purple prose. To me, purple prose has to be, well, prose, that is, at least a paragraph or two.

Slightly off-topic, I highly recommend looking at the Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest referenced there. Great examples of so bad they're good.