Got cheated by my landlord

[Chris8080]

Hi,

I rented a room in a shared flat for 3 months, from the end of april to the end of july.

The room rate was 800 RMB / month + admin / electricity etc. around 150 RMB

I left deposit of 2400 RMB there.

We set the contract, everything seems to be nice and fine.

Unfortunately, I had an achilles tendon rupture and had to leave after 1,5 months, back to Germany to get the surgery and the rehab/physio.

I left in a rush, didn't see my landlord. She just told me to leave the rest of the admin fee there, the key and the contract.

I thought - sure why not, so she can rent out the flat earlier and since I already paid the whole june she will get some extra money where I would've been fine with.

My friend wanted to get the deposit two weeks after I left and my landlord told her, it's not possible since I left early and I can't get back any money.

A lot of discussion, etc. still - I don't get back my money and (stupid me) she has got the contract.

Interestingly she is not allowed to rent out the room to another person. More over, her landlord doesn't pay taxes for renting out the flat, so a foreigner is not allowed to live there.

I'll return in two months and sure, I'm interested in getting back some money.

I would agree to:

I pay the whole 3 months and get back 1600RMB, since I understand that I should have lifed there 3 months.

But she doesn't want to give me a single Yuan!

(Which I can understand as well: All laowai are rich, this one is 9000KM far away from her, why not try to keep this money?)

Do you have any idea, what I can do now?

Or later, when I'm back?

Thank you in advance

Bye, Chris

[xiaocai]

So what does it say on the contract you signed? How much deposit you can get back in case of early termination due to emergency?

And the thing is now you are willing to pay a full three-month rental, so it seems to me that you are practically still renting the room now until the end of july. So there is not even an early termination or anything else appears to me that could be a breach of contract. So what is the reason your landlord gave for not even partially refunding the bond?

If the contract doesn't specify a place (e.g. the flat you have been renting) that you have to primarily stay at during the 3 months, I don't think your landlord will have any valid excuse to keep any of your deposit.

[anonymoose]

In this kind of situation, it's difficult to do anything. Had you registered your address with the local PSB?

If so, and you go back before the contract was due to finish, you can try going to the PSB and say that the landlord isn't letting you back into the apartment even though the contract hasn't finished yet. At the very least, they might contact the landlord, and it might scare her enough to come to an agreement.

[kdavid]

Sorry to hear about this.

The short of it: you can't do anything about this.

There are plenty of cases where people live up to their contracts and leave their rented apartments in better conditions than they found it, and they still don't get their deposit back. Landlords often make up excuses about things being "broken" or "looking different". It's just an excuse to keep the cash.

You can try what is mentioned above, but you probably won't have much luck.

[roddy]

Three months rent as deposit!? That's a great big warning sign right there.

Anyway, first thing you need to do is accept the money isn't coming back. Chalk it up to experience.

Then, if you still have the inclination, when you get back you can try and make so much of a nuisance of yourself that she might just decide to give you some money back to make you go away. Local police station, building management office, 居委会, whoever's in charge of taxes on rental contracts (工商局?). But anything that comes back to you is a bonus, because you've got no contract and therefore it doesn't matter how much in the right you are.

[gougou]

Be sure to talk to her once more before trying all of these steps, though, and make her aware (in a friendly way) that you could take them. Once she had to pay taxes because of you telling on her, you can be sure that you won't get another cent from her and it's lose-lose.

[anonymoose]

because you've got no contract and therefore it doesn't matter how much in the right you are.

But if he registered with the local PSB, they should at least have a photocopy of the contract.

[roddy]

Hmmm, could do - but did he?

[gougou]

I don't think the PSB ever copied my contract. In some cases, they didn't even look at it.

[dumdumdum]

my friend simply called a local thug to settle the case. and yes the landlord paid back. just buy the 'helpful' guy a nice dinner meal.

[gougou]

my friend simply called a local thug to settle the case. and yes the landlord paid back. just buy the 'helpful' guy a nice dinner meal.

Yeah, and while you're at it, why not have him rob some old ladies' pension checks too? Go thugs!

[Chris8080]

Thank you very much for your suggestions.

I will go with the nuisance strategy.

A thug is not really what I intend to do.

[Brian US]

My friend had a 6 month lease with a bad landlord. 1-2 weeks into moving in she washed her clothes then left for a few hours. When she came home the living room was flooded. After clearing out the water the landlord came with a plumber to find the washing machine drained into the same pipe as the shower. Apparently the last tenant clogged up the shower with hair, so it backed up. The wood floors showed some signs of damage, but nothing serious.

Last week was move out and I was sent to get the deposit as my friend left the country. The landlord came in with all smiles and glanced over one bedroom, but immediately went off about the floors. A shouting match ensued with her wanting more money than the deposit.

Deposit: 3500

Claimed floor damage -3000

Leftover utilities -300

Finding random damage (loose doorknob...) -200

=no returned deposit

She basically came in with no intentions of returning any money. Not much you can do, but my friend did mention if she was there she would have threatened to take a hammer to the floors. If you have to replace the floors then it wouldn't matter if she banged around a little in front of the landlord. Someone moved in a few days later, so lets say the floors didn't need replacing.

When I moved into my place I made sure to take pictures of the room in front of my landlord to show I knew what condition it was in.

[roddy]

Could we stay roughly on topic please, folks.

[gougou]

A shouting match ensued

Once it gets to that point your chances are pretty slim. As long as the landlord's got your money, you'll wanna stay on good terms with him/her.

If you're dealing with the landlord directly, you should always make that a determining factor in whether you take a place or not. As for agents, for all the grief I had with them, I found them pretty reliable about deposits.

[Brian US]

Once it gets to that point your chances are pretty slim. As long as the landlord's got your money, you'll wanna stay on good terms with him/her.

I'm curious if foreigners are especially singled out with deposits, or Chinese also go through just as much trouble. I don't want to speak on behalf of everyone's experience in China, but it seems the landlord keeps most of the deposit where in America you tend to get most of your deposit back. In regards to a landlord's reputation, word gets around easier in America when the landlord owns the whole building and all your neighbors share their experiences. Yet, in China it is hard to get a reading when they only rent out one apartment.

There was a guy that tagged along interested in renting my friend's apartment, but decided not to after witnessing the deposit ordeal. I've always found past landlords to be extremely nice until money issues come up, which I suppose is their livelihood. Haven't heard of agencies doing much after getting an initial finders fee.

[anonymoose]

Well, I think that people are more likely to speak out (post on the internet) when something bad like this happens, than when they have had a good experience, so the impression one gets is that losing the deposit and being screwed by the landlord is par for the course.

However, I have had 3 landlords in Shanghai so far, and the first two didn't even take a deposit for some reason. And the last one is not at all fussy about money. When I was looking at the apartment, asking about a microwave and this and that, he said no problem, and got those things new for me. He also had aircon installed in all of the rooms. I told him I'd be moving out next week and that I still owe him a month's rent, taking into account the deposit, so when he came by to pick it up (over a month after when it was due to be paid), I also told him that there might be something outstanding to pay on the gas and electricity. The gas meter hadn't been read for a while, so checking what the current figure is, he came to a rough estimate of what I owe, but rounding it down to probably quite a lot less than it should have been, and he said never mind about the electricity and water. He also said if I want to stay for a few days after the contract runs out, that's no problem, and when I leave, I can just leave the keys on the table and go.

So, you see, whilst there is always a risk of getting a dodgy landlord, there are some very good and honest ones also.

[roddy]

Being a (new) student also makes a difference - you're new in town so you potentially sign up for arrangements you shouldn't (excessive deposits, dubious sublets, dodgy landlords), and you're more likely to be leaving town at the end of the lease, which puts you in an incredibly weak position. And so landlords become somewhat predatory.

It can be a major hassle, and plenty of people (Chinese and foreign) do end up losing their deposit. But it's not as bad as the Internet makes it sound. I've never had any problems (must be up to about half a dozen apartments by now).

[dumdumdum]

Yeah, and while you're at it, why not have him rob some old ladies' pension checks too? Go thugs!

well too bad that didnt happen, just your imaginations. and to start with, not all landlords are typical 'old ladies' some could be the 'vicious' type. locals do have a way to deal with locals, not like us sitting down here in front of our pc having no solutions to it. even the polioe would leave the helpless foreigners to straighten it out with the landlord. ;)

I'm curious if foreigners are especially singled out with deposits, . . . .

they do. just that the chinese knew what to expect, from both sides. so it becomes quite easy. i've helped chinese and foreign colleagues looked for rental. the chinese ones i just introduced them and they knew what to do next, and i'll just leave things to themselves. usually no problem unless the tenant broke something during his stay. foreigners, overseas chinese, koreans are more careful, while japanese, westerners got conned pretty often. just my experience.

those with agencies had a steady flow of tenants and they probably had some sort of contract/personal info/or even deposit with the agencies, so the landlord are usually less of a problem. besides, those going through agencies are a fraction more expensive than those in the free market.

[dumdumdum]

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