Starting Chinese with NPCR

[baozhu]

Hello, this will be my first post on this forum ;)

I've always wanted to learn a language but never really pushed through to have a clear goal of being able to speak and write fluently. I read this post http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12024&PN=0&TPN=1 and it really inspired me to learn Mandarin, but don't think I want to learn just because of that post, I've always been interested in Chinese culture, especially the Taiwanese stars(does this count as culture? lol i dunno).

I'm going to be following somewhat closely to what the poster I referred in the link did where SRS was a main component. I already have Pimsleur and will be starting off with this since I believe for total beginners like myself it will supplement my learning very well. I will also be using the FSI and Assimil Chinese with ease because I want to be able to speak and listen in an efficient amount of time.

I will be ordering NCPR volume 1 soon, however I'm not sure what I should buy. I haven't found much pertaining to whether I should buy everything or only a few of them. So what do you good people recommend to buy?

Are my choices in resources any good? should i skip Assimil? I was thinking about possibly getting the DeFrancis books also because I have read its very good in helping to remember Chinese characters.

[querido]

Welcome. This is THE place to be!

Oh my goodness I *love* that guy at the link you provided! I've known of him for some time.

I am the author of the following, snipped from two posts in an inactive forum.

After buying all the parts for Volume 1, I tried to explain how they fit together.

They're great books but I actually used something else by the same publisher.

*This* forum has many veterans of this series. Good luck.

Neat to have all the parts but a little complicated.

CD audio is fully Hi-Fi and noise free. Many of the voices, especially of the females of course, are really remarkably beautiful and musical. Pacing (at least on this Volume 1) is just right for me. It is slowed a little, but not exaggeratedly. English, used at section headers for example, is at a bare minimum, and is always preceded by the Chinese.

DVD: These videos are available on the internet, supplied by the producers (search this forum for the link). I noticed that a new issue of NPCR is out that includes these on DVD, so I bought that. These appear to be the same videos. The dialogues on the DVD are a subset of the CD audio. The delivery is more casual, and faster on average, but still very clear. I *think* that the audio is sometimes very slightly out of sync with the video, but this could be my software setup. (Edit 04JUL07: The DVDs are dubbed, but they did a very good job.) I would say that it is helpful to get to know the actors (so you can "see" them speaking when listening to the CD), so I recommend the download or the DVD. I had no problem copying the DVD and the CD's to the harddrive (to safeguard the originals). The downloadable files have one advantage: the DVD has a 5..4..3..2 beeping before each video, which could be annoying.

Book: About 8 1/2 x 11. Font style is about midway between a "song" and a "kai", that is, very clear but a partially "hand-stroked" style. This is good. Font size is larger than most, generous for anyone with normal eyesight. (I must still use glasses.) The printing is not very compact: there is a lot of empty space between lines. This does no harm. Divisions between lessons should be more visually prominent.

The book has some questions without answers. I think I've read that the answers are in the teacher's manual, and that the teacher's manual is all-Chinese. There is a workbook too. I will probably buy all of the parts, but another reviewer somewhere opined that the accessories are unnecessary.

Characters and stroking are covered from the beginning. Stroke order, with no exception that I've seen yet, agrees with the ABC etymological dictionary in Wenlin (which I think is based on the Chinese government official standard). Edit 04JUL07: The book has little pictures to illustrate or illuminate the meaning of the characters. These pictures are, I'm trying to choose my words, almost never as helpful as the illustrations and discussions in Wenlin.

Volume one has characters and pinyin. Volume two switches to characters-with-tone-marks. Volume three then omits the tone marks too. This is what they say, I have only seen volume one.

The Instructor's Manual contains, for each of the fourteen lessons in the Textbook, two sections.

One is all-Chinese, keyed to the Textbook, presumably advising the teacher. Someday I'd like to know the didactic/phonetic/linguistic related vocabulary used here.

The other has English section headers, and is keyed to the Workbook; it gives the answers to the listening comprehension related questions in the Workbook, and transcriptons of the parts of the Workbook audio that aren't given in the Workbook. For example, where the Workbook audio says "listen to this dialogue and answer the questions", or "listen and write in pinyin", this section of the Instructor's Manual gives the transcript.

The Instructor's Manual also contains cumulative exams, one for lessons 1-6 (phonetics), and one for 7-14. For each, it has one copy without the answers (which could be copied out of the book for use), and the same one with the answers.

The Instuctor's Manual CD contains the audio necessary for administering the two final exams: one big file for 1-6, and another for 7-14. That is all.

The Workbook gives extended practice that is very similar to that in the Textbook. It is mostly "listen to the audio and fill in the blank", or "listen to the audio and mark the correct answer", etc. For speaking, it offers a dialogue to practice with a friend. For writing, it offers small practice sheets with the little squares to fill in characters and components, with little stroke diagrams. These are small. I would consider them just a prompt to do it on separate paper.

The 2-CD Workbook audio is necessary if you get the workbook.

[baozhu]

Very informative review querido, it explains the features of the series nicely and if I understood correctly all the pieces are necessary in order to benefit from the series, but it seems possible to skip the workbook. Yes, I agree that they are complicated for no apparent reason, how can you have so many components just for a volume 1... from a review on amazon

New Practical Chinese Reader Textbook 1, $19.95

New Practical Chinese Reader Textbook 1 Audio CDs, $29.95

New Practical Chinese Reader Workbook 1, $12.95

New Practical Chinese Reader Workbook 1 Audio CDs, $16.95

New Practical Chinese Reader Workbook 1 Instructor's Manual, $14.95

that equates to a whopping $95 which is just out of hand, it seems more like a marketing technique to swindle money. In addition to this there are 6 volumes making NPCR a very expensive series. Regardless of how good NPCR is I don't want to spend that kind of money so at the moment I'm not purchasing it as of yet. I have started to research other textbooks and Integrated Chinese seems worthwhile but again it requires expensive components, which is leading me to believe that maybe the cost is necessary or they all are just a bunch of money hungry companys.

I may just use the resources I currently have and supplement with the many free online resources since I'm not impressed with the leading textbooks pricing. I'm going to keep researching because I would still rather have textbooks because staring at a screen to learn from is going to be a double edged sword(not sure if this phrase is used correctly...).

[renzhe]

I finished NPCR by only going through the textbooks and DVDs.

It really depends on whether you are the sort of person who needs to do exercises. I don't like exercises so I didn't get them. The CDs might be useful, but the DVDs have the dialogue at full speed, so they are not essential. Also keep in mind that all the DVD lessons are on youtube.

So get the textbook. Get the practice through other means -- other textbooks, reading real materials like comics and stories, TV shows, conversation practice....

And to make it better, try to have a Chinese acquaintance get them in China for you, it's quarter the price there.

[HedgePig]

Just to say that I'm pretty sure you won't need the instructor's manual because if I recall correctly it's all in Chinese and is at a much higher level than the textbooks because it's aimed at the instructor, not the student.

I didn't like NPCR as for self-study tool because I found the grammar explanations extremely confusing. However I should say that many people do like it so don't take my negative comments too seriously, especially as I haven't seen anything that is clearly superior.

[roddy]

How many hours time does it have to save you to be worth the cost?

[yonglin]

I have studied book 3 a while ago and I'm now studying book 5 (bought book 6 as well!). I found the audio CDs to be indispensible, but then I'm very much of an auditory learner: I like putting the tracks on my mp3 player and listening to them while walking about! I particularly like the repetetive fashion in which they read the short phrases on the audio CDs - great for auditory learners! (I think on the DVDs, they only read the dialogue...?)

The CDs seem quite expensive at $29.95, given that their regulated price in China is about 32 yuan. If there are any Chinese book stores around where you live, you might have some luck with those (I picked up the audio CDs for vol5 at Oriental Culture Enterprises in NYC: I think they were about $11 or so.) If you don't mind waiting, you may consider ordering from Joyo/Amazon.cn: they sell them for <30 yuan + shipping (I paid Y60 for slow shipping - up to 30 days - to Canada.)

The workbooks are not that exciting: I personally wouldn't buy them, but your learning style may vary. There might be better books teaching character writing / grammar, etc.

[baozhu]

How many hours time does it have to save you to be worth the cost?

That is a good point roddy, NPCR is a highly rated textbook and money shouldn't get in the way of learning languages. No doubt if I buy it, the benefits will easily outweigh any monetary loss so I have already ordered the NPCR vol 1 textbook recommended by renzhe. I don't believe the workbook or instructors manuals are needed so I didn't get them, and since the dvd contain elements of the audio cds I will not purchase those even though yonglin says they are indispensable for him/her I already have pimsleur and will be using FSI for my audio needs.

I admit I went on a bit of a spree buying many books, I researched for about the whole day yesterday and looked at the reviews on Amazon for many many books. I found so many that I liked that and from their reviews they all seemed very helpful. I don't know anyone in China so I couldn't buy books cheaper from there, and since I live in Australia the shipping rates of Amazon was very expensive.

I purchased from bookdepository.com as they are the cheapest site I could find, Australia has very inflated prices, sometimes nearly double of those in the US and UK. Their site says delivery to my country is 7-14 days which sounds good. Most of my textbooks I bought have been published recently, most are 2006-2010.

I ordered:

New Practical Chinese Reader: Textbook v. 1 $23.12 (will be my main textbook)

Chinese grammar seems to be difficult so I got these,

Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar $33.11

Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar Workbook $27.83

Schaum's Outline of Chinese Grammar $16.69 (this author is apart of the team that published the above books but this one is supposed to have more exercises)

Mandarin Chinese Learning Through Conversation, Volume One $26.19 (Same author as 301 Conversational Chinese)

Chinese 24/7(Power Chinese on their site) $21.78 (From the reviews on Amazon, it seems to be a beginners book that teaches very well and also corrects common mistakes while learning Mandarin)

This coupled with Anki should be good,

Tuttle Learning Chinese Characters $24.85

Another Chinese character book that I got was rated 5 stars for all 12 reviews on Amazon, it seems to have a fantastic way to teach characters through logic and story although I'm not sure how many characters they teach.

Learning Chinese The Easy Way by Sam Song, from Amazon since no one else stocked it which was $30, I also purchased Adventures in Mandarin Chinese: The Fox and The Goat which is the same author and is supposed to teach the same way. The main book Learning Chinese The Easy Way is supposed to have the other stories, Two men and the Bear, The Wind and The Sun so you shouldn't buy those.

All this cost me approximately $210, but I have no idea, I repeat NO IDEA if any of these books are good so don't buy them just because I bought them. Yes very contradictory of me to buy so much but I don't mind since I believe learning Mandarin will enrich my life.

[roddy]

Excellent, let us know how you get on . . .

[deathtrap]

I'll just chime in with my thoughts here. I've completed NPCR Vol.1 and so far I've been satisfied with its content and pacing. It doesn't actually have all that much grammar in it so I'm debating whether to get the other volumes since I already have Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar and some great dictionaries(Online->Nciku, Offline->Pera-Pera-kun for Firefox, and iPhone->Nciku which I paid $5 for and it's the best investment I feel I've made so far).

The one book I strongly recommend you buy, right now! is James Heisig's Remembering Simplified Hanzi (or Remembering Traditional Hanzi). It's such a great book and study scheme for the characters that I don't know how I could have progressed so quickly in Chinese without it.

Oh, and I think Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar is an excellent book. Great material and the organization is very well thought out with plenty of example sentences.

I recently bought Graded Chinese Reader 2 & 3, and 2 volumes of Chinese Breeze.

I think these books, along with all the reading material I've found scouring this site and others, should provide a good path for me to follow.

Good luck!

[hackinger]

Hi,

dealers which specialise in Chinese book may have discount pricing on NPCR textbook and CD bundles. In Europe one could try

chinabooks in Switzerland for instance.

Currently Textbook I + 4 CDs bundle is 17,80 Euros and workbook I with 2 CDs is 9.52 Euros. Hard to complain about these prices.

http://www.chinabooks.ch/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2978&osCsid=nmqllclopb6atd827umuubsqi7

http://www.chinabooks.ch/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=78&osCsid=nmqllclopb6atd827umuubsqi7

No, I have no affiliation with them, except that I bought my NPCR-stuff there.

Cheers

hackinger