Minding your own business in China

[GreenArrow45]

So I'm sure most people who have been in China for any period of time know that you're supposed to essentially ignore what others are doing if it doesn't directly affect you. While I understand this in some situations, I can't see why it is expected that we should stand by and watch a man beating a woman or things of this degree. Not ignoring people doing this has gotten me in trouble a couple times, but I personally feel I am being irresponsible if I just ignore someone doing this type of thing. At the same time, I have found that if there is an incident involving a foreigner and a Chinese person, it is suddenly every Chinese person's business.

So I'm curious why this seems to be the general belief about how you should conduct yourself in China...on the other hand, I guess I could also ask, does anyone know why in the West we seem to be more inclined to get involved if we see someone beating someone else senseless?

[gato]

Confucian vs. Christianity maybe? But before we generalize about Chinese culture, does this happen in Taiwan and Hong Kong, too? If not, maybe it's because of "communism". Do you see this "mind my own business" mentality in Russia and Eastern Europe?

http://www.globaled.org/chinaproject/confucian/reading1.html

The Five Basic Relationships

According to Confucius, each person had a specific place in society and certain duties to fulfill. Confucius hoped that if people knew what was expected of them they would behave correctly. Therefore, he set up five principal relationships in which most people are involved. These relationships were (1) ruler and subject; (2) father and son; (3) elder brother and younger brother; (4) husband and wife; and (5) friend and friend. All, except the last, involve the authority of one person over another. Power and the right to rule belong to superiors over subordinates; that is, to older people over younger people, to men over women. Each person has to give obedience and respect to "superiors"; the subject to his ruler, the wife to her husband, the son to his parents, and the younger brother to the older brother. The "superior," however, owes loving responsibility to the inferior.

The Family and the State

Confucius placed great importance on the family. Family life was seen as a training ground for life in society. It is at home in the family that the child learns to deal with problems that he or she will face later in the world. The family is responsible for educating the child to be a good member of society. Confucius emphasized the importance of education, the aim of which is to turn people into good family members, responsible members of society, and good subjects of the emperor.

The state (government) was regarded as an extension of the family in many ways. The emperor and his officials were referred to as the parents of the people. Subjects owed the same loyalty to their rulers that they owed to the senior members of their family.

[roddy]

Oh, there's been a robust cross-cultural study of the bystander effect?

[renzhe]

I think that the issue is more practical than philosophical. People tend to mind their own business and advise others to do so when getting involved can get you in trouble.

I've heard of many scams where people get involved, only to be accused of doing this and that (like the infamous one with the old lady who falls and injures herself) and then forced to pay money, often with the involvement of local police. This sort of thing makes people think twice before getting involved, like it does in many ghettos around the world. Do you want to get yourself (and your family) involved in some triad dispute?

Of course, every situation is different, and if it's a serious issue like a bad case of battery, then you might very well need to get involved (and people often don't out of fear, which is also understandable). But I can remember one occasion where my instinct was to help a guy being beaten, only to realise that I had accidentally walked into a full-scale gang conflict, with a dozen (probably armed) guys on each side waiting to get involved and fists flying in all directions. Where I live, this sort of stuff happens daily. It is generally a very good idea to be careful about what you get involved in.

[xiaoxiaocao]

Not too long ago some security guards caught a thief near the complex where i live. They chased him out to the main gate and then started beating him really badly - I'm talking kicks right to the face etc The beating was starting to disrupt traffic on the street so they brought him inside the complex and then started beating him some more, this time with a baton and bicycle padlock. The whole time there was a big crowd of people just watching, I even heard a few people encouraging the guards to keep going at him. I asked a couple of people if the guards are allowed to do that and if this is how the law is carried out in China - of course they were outraged that i would think that, and told me the guards shouldn't do that and that what was happening was not good - they then went on watching the beating without saying a thing. I could see some people in the crowd visibly squemish about what was going on but nobody tried to interfere or stop the guards. The funniest thing was that at the front gate where all this happened is a red banner that says 创建文明小区, should have taken a photo.

[skylee]

A country is not only what it does, it is also what it tolerates. [blog]

[GreenArrow45]

Renzhe those are definitely some good points. Perhaps part of my "issue" is that where I was raised the standard of living was high enough that there was never any legal or gang threat to a person if they were to help someone else being beaten. If anything they might be given a reward by the victim they helped.

[renzhe]

Yeah, but the guy doing the beating might be the nephew of a local politician. You never know.

I do share your concern, though. It's true that people often do not have enough courage to step up and get involved, and not just in China.

[xianhua]

The lack of action is perhaps induced by a fear of the resulting consequences - and guanxi has a role to play in this. Stepping into the wrong situation with the wrong guy could lose you your job - and a whole lot more. As a non-resident in China, I have nothing to lose in this respect, and so perhaps would step in more readily.

Also, I think this really does depends on the individual situation. A street fight is a whole different situation to the incident I remember, where a young student (13-14), face streaming with blood, walked alone outside his school as the other parents, students and teachers all looked on. I intervened and insisted that he was taken to hospital by one of the teachers.

[Rosebelle]

I have not been to China but I notice that my Chinese coworkers are the same. Whenever there's a problem, they're very passive and don't speak up no matter how angry they are about the problem. They just talk about it amongst themselves. I'm close to most of them and I get upset when they just accept things that they know are wrong. When I ask them why they don't ever speak up, they say they don't want to stir up trouble and they don't trust management. Now going back to the problem in China, I'm thinking maybe the laws are different there. People probably just don't want to get themselves pulled into unnecessary headaches. Who knows what you're getting yourself into. I do see your point though because I'm not the type that would tolerate an act of wrong to pass by me like I didn't see or hear anything. I'd rather take action and have a clear conscience than to be asking myself later 'why didn't I do anything?'.

[Tianjin42]

These are interesting points. Cultural difference aside I was extremely disappointed on one occasion near the start of my time in China. I was waiting for a train in the new Beijing South Station when a man sitting opposite began to have a violent fit. I thought I was the first to notice but when I alerted people they suggested we simply 'wait and see what happens'. It took me to go over and make sure he didn't swallow his tongue and to alert staff at the station, all at a time when I barely spoke any Chinese (whilst everyone else looked one).

This was only one isolated incident and I have had an array of wonderful experiences in China, with Chinese people since. I could also imagine this happening in London for example, but this occasion I felt that the conduct of those around me was really lacking.

[carlo]

Yeah, but the guy doing the beating might be the nephew of a local politician. You never know.

In this case, however, you would have improved your career prospects considerably.

[Yezze]

Where I live, this sort of stuff happens daily

I don't remember Hamburg being that bad? Has it gotten worse in the past few years?

[Brian US]

There is a reason why police hate getting calls over a domestic dispute. Once they "save" a partner they sometimes become the bad guys in the eyes of the other partner for putting a loved one in cuffs.

[gougou]

I'd completely disregard the gang issue.

This great article (unfortunately in German) brings it back to empathy in the West being founded in religion, where you should treat everybody as your equal, whereas secular Confucianism gives you more room to be selective. It starts with some great food for thought: While in China, you can die in the streets after a traffic accident with nobody helping, in the West you could die encircled by your family without anybody caring.

[aristotle1990]

Is it really true that Chinese people don't care about people outside of their family, though? Receiving (often significant) help from complete strangers is not an uncommon phenomenon in China, and it's happened to me personally on several occasions.

[gougou]

Are you a foreigner or Chinese? Rules are very different there... I also feel I get treated excellently here, but when I see Chinese among themselves, that just isn't the case.

[aristotle1990]

I'm a white foreigner, so maybe that's why...then again, why would the Chinese go out of their way to help foreigners they're never going to meet again?

[gougou]

I think a lot is out of national pride, to make their country appear in a good light. Some also just might be intrigued by interacting with something as different as a foreigner.

[dumdumdum]

social values change, or 'eroded' in the eyes of some. in the early 90s, one can still go to inner mongolia virtually penniless. he can ask for a night stay with the locals and the ethnic mongols will give him shelter and food, for free. it was against their tradition to get paid for showing their hospitality. nowadays, things could be different.

the famous incident was this young man helping an old lady who fell on the road. there wasnt anyone around. the kind young man took her to her residence on his bike. but down there, slowly, neighbours began to question, how on earth could there be such a nice guy? and they started speculating that the young man must have knocked down the old lady, and therefore helped her back. in the end even the old lady herself joined in. the young man paid compensations. this is kinda typical 'post cultural revolution syndrome', if you dont follow the crowd, then you are against them. the old lady had no choice but to frame the kind young man.

other related stuff would be traffic rules. if you knock down somebody and injured him, you will probably face a heavier penalty than killing him outright. thats why we sometimes see such news in china, a driver knock someone down, then came around to run over him twice or thrice to make sure the victim's dead.