I need some advice please

[faluang]

Hello people and thank you in advance for giving me advice.

I have been to China (Yiwu, Guangzhou, Shanghai & Nanjing) this for a period of about 2 months. I have also lived in south east Asia for a period of about 14 months. I am a caucasian male in my early twenties and want to learn Chinese now.

When I was in China I used the help of a private female Chinese teacher to help me learn Mandarin and this is when I realized how hard it is and how much time I would be spending to even just speak and understand the language without reading or writing it.

Now I seriously think alot about China (in general) and it would seriously help me out in the future if I could learn the language and go there more often to do some business.

I want to go back to China next month and start learning the language. Where should I go? I have been to Nanjing and I'm looking for a city quite similar but with a better nightlife where other foreigners can be found. I do not like Shanghai or Guangzhou and will probably not like Beijing either. I need a more personal (smaller) city where other students and ofcourse good nightlife can be found.

I'm definately not a book worm so I won't be in my room or apartment allday studying so I will probably be outside in the city doing things which would allow me to train my Mandarin language skills.

So which city would be a good choice for me?

I need:

- a Chinese girlfriend

- Foreigner (or English speaking) friends

- Good nightlife

- Sport activities

- Cheap accomodation, transportation & food

Thanks for the advice. I really need it.

[Lu]

I'd recommend Taipei, with the sidenote that if you are already planning to spend your time with foreigners, your progress will be slower than if you'd try your best to speak as much Chinese as possible.

Taipei is not exactly China, and you'd learn traditional characters instead of simplified. But it has great weather, little pollution, nice people who speak clearly, cheap and abundant transportation, plenty of foreigners and potential Chinese (well, Taiwanese) girlfriends, good nightlife, tasty and cheap food, and last but not least, some good language schools (I recommend National Taiwan Normal University's Mandarin Training Center, but there are other good options too.)

I have the impression that Kunming is also a pleasant city.

Best of luck!

[Jane_PA]

Smaller city with good nightlife and many foreigners? I don't see they can be combined easily in anywhere...

[faluang]

The first person I met who knew alot about China and was a fluent Chinese speaker recommended Kunming because he studied there for 1 year.

For you people it may sound funny that I "need" a Chinese girlfriend but this is also a good way for me to learn Chinese.

So on my list are: Taipei, Kunming and are there any other cities?

I'm not looking for a city "full" of foreigners but there has to be a decent foreign expat commnity and nightlife.

Thanks and please give me some advice.

[Lu]

For you people it may sound funny that I "need" a Chinese girlfriend but this is also a good way for me to learn Chinese.

Yes, it does sound funny, and also like you want to use a girl purely for the purpose of learning Chinese. One has to wonder what happens when you're fluent enough, or move away again. You could consider making some good Chinese friends that you hang out with and talk with regularly, it'll be much less creepy.

[putonghua73]

So which city would be a good choice for me?

I need:

- a Chinese girlfriend

- Foreigner (or English speaking) friends

- Good nightlife

- Sport activities

- Cheap accommodation' date=' transportation & food[/quote']

I agree with Jane_PA to an extent, because there are plenty of foreign English speakers to be found - it's the "Good nightlife" that will be the main sticking point.

Your criteria are too broad and vague to really help pinpoint a potential city without further clarification. Aside from a smaller city, what was it about Shanghai and Guangzhou that you disliked? It would also be helpful if you could rank / state your criteria in terms of an absolute must (no negotiation) and where you could negotiate, to help people provide you with more informed answers. Let me elaborate:

1. a Chinese girlfriend

You're male, Western and in your mid-20s. Unless you're a complete douche-bag, meeting a potential girlfriend will be the least of your worries. Here in Kunming, I've found the women to be a little paradoxical in terms of shyness, naivety, yet also intensely curious and interested in meeting Westerners. Activity and language exchange partners are the way to go, as not only can you potentially develop friendships with Chinese people, but you also develop your own social network who can potentially help you by recommending a friend.  Besides, everyone needs friends, right?

2. Foreigner (or English speaking) friends

Unless you go from one extreme (Shanghai) to another, like an American English teacher I met a few weeks ago, who is on a 1 year teaching contract in a town with 36,000 people (he is the only foreigner), then no need to sweat meeting other foreign / English speaking people. Besides meeting people studying Chinese, a good place to meet foreigners - other than bars and clubs - is through sport e.g. weekly football matches, or other sporting activities.

3. Good nightlife

This criterion is potentially a major sticking point. Since you wish to avoid the major cosmopolitan cities (Beijing, Shanghai, etc), then prepare yourself for unsophisticated night-life. I agree with Jane_PA that there are a number of potential places - such as Kunming - that would adequately meet your criteria, with the exception of "good nightlife". Since you've traveled around SE Asia, Bangkok aside, you know what to expect i.e. opulent interior, dance-floor covered by tables, with people standing around them drinking, smoking, whilst your ear-drums are aurally assaulted by excessively loud and excruciatingly bad music (at David 1855 here in Kunming, "Happy Birthday" is played at midnight and the whole club sings in unison); whilst the dance-floor is about 2 square meters. That's if you don't die of second-degree smoke inhalation!

4. Sport activities

No major problem, depending on what type of sporting activities. The usual candidates e.g. football, badminton, tennis, basketball, etc should be readily found. If you want ice-skating, or a specific martial art such as Ju-jitsu (which I'm interested in starting up again), then you might encounter difficulties. 

5. Cheap accommodation, transportation & food

Could you clarify what you would define as "cheap", say an approximate monthly ball-park figure for rent? To give you an idea, you could probably get a decent place in Kunming (sharing with 3/4 people) for around 700-800 per month. 1,000 a month shouldn't present a problem, depending on what area you wish to live. If you want multiple bedrooms, then 1,500 plus (around 2,000 - 2,500 mark in certain upscale areas for 3 bedrooms).

Transport here is cheap - a flat 1 kuai on buses (except on certain special buses where it's 2 kuai on the A buses, or a bit more for destinations outside Kunming); and taxis are very cheap by Western standards. I would say as an estimate, that transport costs in London (where I'm from) are at least 10x more expensive.

Food (Chinese) is generally cheap, so shouldn't be an issue. Cheaper in other places, obviously. If you eat Western, then expect prices to be similar back home (although cheaper). 

When I was going through the same decision process as you, I tried to construct some concrete, firm criteria:

1. Relatively little (air) pollution 

2. Clean

3. Green spaces

4. Mid-size city (around 4m)

5. Temperate weather i.e. not stupidly hot during summer (over 35 degrees) and not stupidly cold in winter (sub-zero)

I wasn't aware of Xiamen back then, otherwise my decision may have been different, but I narrowed my choices down to either Chengdu or Kunming - as I have a preference for Western China. Chengdu is approx double the size, and hotter; I still would like the opportunity to live / study there (ditto Xiamen) at some stage. My decision was easier to make because not only did Kunming tick all of my criteria, but it also had the language school that met all of my criteria i.e. 1-2-1 tuition, private rooms with all mod-cons, excellent reviews, yada yada yada. 

I'd recommend checking out Joshuawbb's superlative review of Xiamen. With maybe the possible exception of "good nightlife", it may tick all of your boxes. I also agree with Lu - also biased as I'm based living / studying here - that Kunming is a very pleasant place to live. However, I must state that the nightlife here is rudimentary (I'm being generous) - so if a cosmopolitan / Western nightclub scene is a priority, then Kunming isn't the place for you.

The only point I'd mention about Lu's excellent review of Taipei (was there a week many years back, visiting my now ex-girlfriend and her family) is that the weather is extremely humid. I found it more humid than Tokyo during summer, and on a par, if not more humid than Hong Kong. Also, if you like culture, Taipei has arguably the best collection of Chinese artifacts to be found in the National Palace Museum. I still kick myself for not taking the opportunity to visit, since I semi-regularly go to the British Museum, and have been to the Met in New York.

Once you do finally make your choice, it would be great to hear from you by posting about your experiences in your new city, and how your experience has differed from your initial impressions.

All the best for your studies and your time in China, whichever city you decide to live in.

Cheers!

P.s. faluang, I understand the need to meet Chinese women / girlfriend, because that has always been right at the very top of my motivations. Chinese women really do it for me. One pitfall you might need to take into consideration: the whole 'practicing Chinese'  might sound like one, big bonus but you'll could actually find that just your girlfriend's English improves. It also gets really old for the other person, if one's language ability is too basic to hold a meaningful conversation.

Edited July 30, 2010 at 03:39 PM by putonghua73

[SiMaKe]

@faluang

If you haven't done so already,

"Life, Work and Study in China in General Subforums"

[http://www.chinese-f...na-in-general/]

may be worth a visit. In particular, Dalian or Qingdao might fit some of your criteria. The discussions on these subforums provide a broad range of points-of-view that also might help you to make an informed decision.

[faluang]

I'm very pleased. Thank you for the answers, especially Putongchua thank you very much.

All the city's mentioned I looked deeper into Kunming and Dalian and they seem to be quite interesting cities but I want to go to a city and directly fall on the right place so i'm doing very serious researches on the internet. I'm also looking for info about Taipei which i'm interested in.

I work each year from May to September in the south of France where I run a resto-bar on the beach. So I'm planning to stay each year 6-7 months in China to practice the language. Cold or humid weather is not on the bottom of my list because when i'm in France I have to deal with alot of sun.

About dating Chinese girls or finding a girlfriend well that's on the top of my list. When i'm single that's the main thing I'm running after because I always feel the need to have a girlfriend or atleast some intimate friends. One of my first Asian girlfriend was Thai and she didn't speak good english (not enough to maintain a serious conversation) so that's how I learned the basics of the Thai language and that's how she learned how to maintain a serious type of conversation in English.

Western style nightlife? What is that? Do you mean American r&b music and Heineken beer? Thats not what I mean with "good nightlife". I like Chinese nightlife and I like going to some "expat" type of bars once in a while to catch up with other foreigners and play some pool.

Sport activities I like any kind of sport. I would do this to improve my Chinese, try to meet beautiful girls if i'm single and maintain my body.

Again a city where foreigners roam around in the sport centres would be a great plus. Apart from doing sports I will also be in the city roaming around and improving my daily language skills.

Accomodation it depends if I could have a big bedroom in a luxurious apartment for 1000 RMB a month I would be satisfied then again it depends with who I have to share it. I'm quite out going, like to put on some music and I am a drinker and smoker. I usually make my own daily cocktail and smoke a big one while watching TV or chatting the evening away. Cheap for me is 1500 RMB a month for a 1 (+1 small room or office) apartment in the city centre with furnished kitchen and possible internet access.

Prices are approximate (10 up to 30% maximum).

Please don't hesitate to give me more advice, maybe you got the right idea about where I should go.

Thanks again and keep writing please!

[jbradfor]

For you people it may sound funny that I "need" a Chinese girlfriend but this is also a good way for me to learn Chinese.

Some of us call that "language rape". And yes, you come across very poorly for saying that.

In your early 20ies, I'm assuming you are not looking to get married soon. So you plan is to hang out there for a while, "play the field", and then leave? Thanks for ruining the reputation of Caucasian males even further.

[faluang]

Oh dear. Why are there haters like this on all Asian Expat forums? Is it your own furstration and imagination that pushes you to think like this?

I like to have fun with girls as much as they want to have it with me.

I need to learn Chinese for business reasons and I have an Asian restaurant in France so it would be handy to actually have an Asian girlfriend who could work with me serving Asian inspired dishes in one of the most reputable holiday area in Europe. So for that, I would be giving my Chinese girlfriend a work opportunity (part time 6 months a year) and a wallet full of saved money when she returns to China. If you look at it like you, then I would be a more than a "good boyfriend" because i'm more than generous and would see places where she would never go or maybe could afford to go. For that, hands up both for me and for her.

So, what do you have to offer to your Chinese girlfriend? Don't judge people too fast. You are sticking an opinion on all foreigners. That's not very wise.

Yes I want to find a Chinese girlfriend. Yes i'm in my early 20's. No i'm not thinking about marriage within the next 5 years. Does that disturb you?

[Meng Lelan]

so it would be handy to actually have an Asian girlfriend who could work for with me serving Asian inspired dishes.

Or more rather - work inspired dishes - get an Asian girlfriend to cook, serve, and wash the dishes in your restaurant.

I would advise you to concentrate on studying the Chinese language, history, and culture instead of studying the girls.

[faluang]

Ofcourse I will and actually you are right. Would be good. Atleast the food would taste better than how the Westerners are trying to cook it for me right now. And the salary goes with it, i'm not the kind of person who uses people, I also was dishes myself.

I'm going to go there next month still deciding where to go, Kunming and Xiamen are on the top of my list and some of the other cities mentioned are very interesting too. I'll have to go there and compare.

[jbradfor]

what do you have to offer to your Chinese girlfriend?

Marriage. A family. A life together.

So for that, I would be giving my Chinese girlfriend a work opportunity (part time 6 months a year) and a wallet full of saved money when she returns to China.

Sounds more like a servant and a prostitute to me.

Oh dear. Why are there haters like this on all Asian Expat forums?

Because we're right?

I like to have fun with girls as much as they want to have it with me.

Sigh..... I don't even know where to begin with this one....

[Meng Lelan]

I also was dishes myself.

"wash" not "was".

[faluang]

Was = wash. Just a typo. Wow, i'm glad you figured that out!

So the people who are working with me right now and who return back to their hometown in the north of the country at the end of the season are also prostitutes? They definately are servants, but they are not prostitutes. If you are an employee then in most cases you are a servant. Actually, I would love to give the opportunity to Chinese people to work abroad and to be able to save more money then they would in their home country. What the hell is wrong with that? It's something I did in the past and I would definately do it again.

You wrote that you are right. In my book you are not.

As far as I know prostitutes are people who have sexual relationships in order to gain money. Maybe for you, that's different and you maybe see alot of "prostitutes" around you. :blink:

____________________________________________________________________________

So let's continue and stay on-topic, OK?

Thank you and take care

[fanglu]

Not to keep harping on about this, but...

Yes I want to find a Chinese girlfriend. Yes i'm in my early 20's. No i'm not thinking about marriage within the next 5 years. Does that disturb you?

It doesn't disturb me in the slightest, but it will disturb a lot of Chinese people. Although there are probably some young women who are interested in playing the field and not getting married any time soon, I expect they're a pretty small minority. In fact, this kind of behaviour was illegal in China, at least on paper, until 1997 - see 流氓罪.

[faluang]

Thank you Fanglu. I have been married with a Pinay and I had several relationships with local Asians, I know what you are talking about. It was just a general point of view. Don't get too deep into it. Some "laowais" see all foreigners as people who "do not understand the rules".

I personaly don't need any rules. I can go wherever I want in this world and I can unfortunately do whatever I want. I like China alot especially the more laid back cities like Nanjing and Yiwu for example. Nanjing is my alternative to learn the language, if I don't like the others cities you mentioned here (THANK YOU!) I will go back to there without a doubt and learn the language but I DOUBT. Yes <_< I am sure there are better cities. Please give me some advice. I need a city with a better surrounding and better nightlife. You can ask ask me "why"? Well... I will tell you "because" I just need a better city. I don't need to find a job in China. Let's make it clear. I'm financialy stable but I do not like cities like Shanghai, Guangzhou, or probably Beijing or Shenzhen. Damn... I used to live in Chiangmai in the north of Thailand and I really loved it. I also like Hua Hin in Thailand.

There probably are some foreigners who know what i'm talking about so... STOP talking shit about Chinese girls or culture, let's get it straight here, would you? I would appreciate it alot.

I don't want any advice about "Chinese girls" this is indeed on top of my list, yes! We all like girls but I just don't want to argue about it.

I like dumplings. Yes! The ones that are a little brown and cracky on the top! Can only find it in China.

Take care, keep it up my friends!

P.S.: if you do not understand this text, please answer me in Spanish, German of French. I will answer you.

[faluang]

I just want to know which city would be good for me. Just need advice about a city I would like to live in. If you have been there and can actually tell me some true facts about it... Then give me advice! That's all I need my friends. Thank you stay on topic.

[valikor]

Some of us call that "language rape". And yes, you come across very poorly for saying that

Admittedly the original poster made himself sound a bit bad (especially as the argument went on and on and he arguably began to sound progressively more like an ass), but I have seen and heard many people (on this forum and other place) say that having a Chinese girlfriend/boyfriend will likely help your Chinese.

He feels he's too young to get married, as do I, and many other western men around this age. This isn't our fault, and doesn't mean that we have bad intentions if we date Chinese women, as if we are planning to "use them and then abandon them".

I could see why he would have gotten a bit defensive after everyone started criticizing him... Falaung: Next time, maybe you should just consider apologizing and clarifying your intentions, rather than yelling at people

[faluang]

Exactly. I drunk a few glasses of tequila last night when I stumbled on this topic again and I made another reply. Just to be sure.

Some Chinese could be perfect wives. For me a relationship is just the same as being married but without the contract. I'm really not thinking to sign a contract. :rolleyes: