International Divorce Laws

[FrustratedInFuzhou]

Hello, all. Long time reader, first time poster.

I'm an American male in my early 30s. I've been in China for over five years now.

Four years ago, I married the love of my life (she's Chinese). For the first three years, we were very happy.

A year ago my wife gave birth to our first child. Since my son's birth, my wife has become a completely different person.

I'm not sure if its hormones, post-par-tum depression, or just adjusting, but my wife has become the most difficult person to live with. Not only does she have the worst temper and fly off at the drop of a hat, but she has been emotionally and physically abusive. Day-to-day life has become an incessant struggle.

For the first six months or so, I figured she was just having an exceptionally difficult time adjusting as a mother. However, with my son's first birthday approaching, and no improvement whatsoever to our situation, I'm fearing the worst.

For my entire adult life I have always been a very optimistic and care-free individual. In the past it was very difficult to make me upset; and even when I became upset I recovered quickly. I'm a pro-active personality who doesn't like to let life dictate my mood. However, I'm finding now that for the first time in easily a decade, I'm depressed and hopeless.

If my wife and I did not have a child together, I probably would have thought of divorce some time ago. I've tried all I know to speak with her, ration through her moods, be as helpful and supportive as I can, etc. However, my actions are generally only met with sarcasm and bitterness.

To make a long story short, I'm seriously considering leaving my wife. The only thing that is keeping me around now is my son. I simply do not want to lose him. I have no doubt that my wife will turn him against me in the best case scenario, and that I'll never seem him again in the worst. As such, I'm thinking of just taking him with me and leaving China for good to return to the States.

My son is an American citizen and has his own passport.

I have two questions:

1. As my son's biological father, what repercussions can I expect legally by taking my son out of China and back to the States?

2. Should I decide to do things "responsibly" and file a divorce here in China, what can I expect regarding guardianship? I'd prefer to stay in China as I have a good job with an western company. I speak fluent Mandarin and have many good friends here.

I don't care about losing what money I have. I'd gladly give everything I own away so long as I could keep my son. My wife is emotionally unstable, and, I believe, is not fit to raise a child on her own; neither emotionally, financially or in any other way.

I hope that I don't have to resort to either of these. I want to work things out with my wife. I'm holding on for dear life that she'll get through this and we can once again be happy. But after a year of torment, I'm finding it very difficult to see the light at, or end of, this tunnel. I'm just very lost and without a method of venting my frustration and disparity.

Anyone who can share personal experience or provide some (legal) advice would help a lot.

[roddy]

Seriously, your best bet is to consult a lawyer - sounds like you're going to need one at some point, and the sooner you get some certainty about what needs to be done, the better. Unless someone on here happens to have been in exactly the same situation it's all going to be a bit speculative.

That said, let the speculation begin . . .

[Jane_PA]

So curious a Chinese woman would like this way... traditionally, Chinese women would think children is the No. 1 important in the world and how could she become so bad temper after the baby birth...

May I ask did you take your wife to the U.S.? Did you try to change the enviroment for your whole family for a short time?

[Meng Lelan]

The best advice I have for you is first ask your wife to get a complete check up. Her mood changes may be treatable either with medications or counseling or both. If that fails, then seek marriage counseling for all of yourselves. Marriage counseling may or may not avert a divorce, but all of you have to sit together and come to some conclusion as to how to conclude the situation. If divorce is indeed going to be the conclusion, then get a lawyer. Do not do this on your own, do not do this through the Internet.

By the way, my father (of blessed memory) was a well known marital counselor so I'm quite sure of what I'm talking about.

[elliott50]

To some extent, every young couple feel like this a year after they have had a new baby. The sleepless nights seem to go on forever, the child needs constant attention, you both feel depressed and frustrated at the loss of your past life together. Yet the grandparents don't understand at all, think you should be having the time of your lives and often say the most stupid and unhelpful things!

This is certainly how my wife felt a year after the birth of each of our two children twenty or so years ago. To my shame, I did not give her the unquestioning support that she really needed during that emotionally turbulent period, since at the time she seemed to me to be behaving completely irrationally. It is only with hindsight that I understand how difficult post-natial depression was for her and how my behaviour probably made things worse. As my wife could not express her feelings coherently in her native tongue, your wife may be finding it very difficult indeed to express her feelings in a foreign language.

Your current hopeful attitude of "holding on for dear life that she'll get through this and we can once again be happy" is exactly the right one. My experience is that that is exactly what will happen... and my wife and I have been happily married for over 30 years with two adult children. "finding it very difficult to see the light at, or end of, this tunnel" is exactly how I felt when my children were that age, so I can tell you that your feeling "very lost and without a method of venting my frustration and disparity" is completely normal, healthy even. Being in China probably does not help with your feelings of isolation, so finding someone sympathetic to talk to would certainly be helpful. Though I'd resist speaking to a lawyer for as long as possible... hopefully forever!

Best of luck!

[fanglu]

1. As my son's biological father, what repercussions can I expect legally by taking my son out of China and back to the States [without my wife agreeing]?

I'd probably get (proper, paid for, from a reputable firm) legal advice, both in China and the US, before doing this. There could be serious consequences for getting it wrong. Taking the child out of China without your wife's permission is probably not against Chinese law* but acting in accordance with the law is not necessary going to stop you getting into trouble in China, particularly if your wife or her family has connections. Family law in the US is state specific, and I have no idea if doing what you're suggesting would be against the law in whatever state you're planning on living in. However, the United States is a signatory to the Convention on International Child Abduction, which can theoretically force a parent who takes a child from the child's country of ordinary residence to take them back. You would then be subject to Chinese law and I doubt a Chinese court would look kindly on a foreigner who had taken a child out of China without permission from the other parent.

* I'm not a Chinese lawyer though, so could very easily be wrong

[anonymoose]

I guess with your wife making life so miserable for you, you must be feeling quite resentful towards her.

However, before you do anything drastic, think about it from her and your son's points of view.

If you run off to the states with your son, you are effectively depriving your wife of her child. I don't know her, but I suspect that would make her feel even more miserable than you're feeling right now. And on top of that, you will be depriving your son of his mother.

[Scoobyqueen]

Four years ago, I married the love of my life (she's Chinese).

If she is the love of your life, you may need to fight even harder for the relationship. Only when you have tried everything should you give up. Marriage counceling is good advice. Plus have you tried to phrase the discussion as questions when you talk about this with your wife? If you phrase your concerns as questions, it sometimes can be a very constructive way of achieving behavioural change in a person. She needs to realise she has changed: How does she see her behaviour? How does she see your behaviour? Does she see you two together long-term, does she think she has changed? Etc.

I hope this will work out for you. From reading your post, I am not sure you have tried everything yet and it seems you are not ready for a divorce yet either, otherwise you probably wouldn’t have posted so many details. In reality you still want the relationship to work out, don’t you? I think it is still possible. She is the love of your life, don't forget that even during a short period of difficulty (it has only been one year).

[Meng Lelan]

And on top of that, you will be depriving your son of his mother.

Chinese divorce laws can let that happen. I actually knew a Chinese friend who got divorced from her Chinese husband in China, and he got 100% custody of their son, and she has not seen the son in 13 years. Last she heard, the father and son moved to Australia. Another Chinese friend got divorced from her Chinese husband in China, and she got 100% custody of the daughter, and both mother and daughter moved to the US, and the father has not seen the daughter in 5 years.

[anonymoose]

Hopefully the OP will be able to find a solution that's beneficial all round.

[jbradfor]

As my son's biological father, what repercussions can I expect legally by taking my son out of China and back to the States?

In many countries, this is considered kidnapping.

[David W Jackson]

Dear FrustratedinFuzhou,

I want to acknowledge your courage in writing so openly and frankly about your situation first of all. I know doing that isn't easy. You never know what kind of responses you're going to get and some folks love to judge, find fault and generally lord it over those who are having a bad time: kicking people when they are down. I speak from experience. So far, looks like you're getting lots of positive support. May it continue. I can not help with the legal problem, sorry. But, for what it's worth, I can totally relate and identify with your situation because I'm going through something similar myself. My two cents regarding the abuse: I don't know your wife at all, but I do know mine and her predominant relationship style is 'Director'. Typically, this person when under pressure, becomes dictatorial and bullying, at other times they are merely direct, terse and bottom-line focussed. Now it may be that the daily exigencies of living together, you know all the household mini-Cold War situations, have taken her over the edge and she is lashing out physically and emotionally because she either doesn't have the EQ and soft skills to resolve the conflict through discussion (this is endemic in China it would seem), or because that's what she saw and assimilated as a child. That doesn't make it right, but sometimes to understand all is to forgive all and the beneficiary of that primarily would be you since it would take away some of the pain and burden in your own heart. I am convinced that my wife's attacking me physically, biting and kicking etc is connected with the way her dad used to beat her up as a kid. We learn family patterns, not verbalised rules. So that's one thing.

Regarding your own precarious mental state: my wife's constant put-downs led to me losing much if not all of my self-esteem and confidence and feeling suicidal, which for anyone who knows me is pretty inconceivable. But again, be kind to yourself, this is totally normal under the circumstances: China is isolating and even with friends, people are often unwilling to get involved, they have their own troubles. Fluent Chinese is one thing, but it doesn't guarantee the ability to bridge the cultural divide. Part of the difficulties I had were around having totally different takes on what constitutes a problem and how to go about resolving it (or putting up with it as the case may be: there's a major clash right there). I left my wife for my own sanity and mental health (we have no kids although she has a child from her first marriage). I'm slowly reverting back to my normal self but I'm deeply scarred and cannot imagine, even with time, that this will heal. I hope I'm wrong.(Unlike you I have no real friends here and just to add insult to injury the company I used to work for have decided to withhold my commissions. When it rains it pours, right?). If you want to skype and chat please feel free to PM me. Talking doesn't necessarily solve anything but sometimes seeing parallels and venting with someone in a similar situation can attenuate the pain a little.(Skype: davidwjackson). Plus there's always someone worse off. This too will pass.

Here are some links which you may find helpful, or not...

http://www.henrymakow.com/my_chinese_wife_set_a_trap.html

http://antimisandry.com/mens-health/venus-dark-side-female-sociopaths-emotional-manipulative-abuse-against-men-18904.html

http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/understanding-attraction-foreign-men-china.htm

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/eighteasyways.shtml

http://www.henrymakow.com/two_men_who_regret_marrying_fo.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing11.html

http://middlekingdomlife.com/blog/personal-stories/pros-and-cons-marriage-to-a-chinese-woman/

When my wife told me she still loved me I found it hard to accept ; how can you love someone and attack them, humiliate them, create arguments out of thin air? But now I see that she means it and in her own way she does as I do her. The difference perhaps is in differing understandings of what love is: Hellenistic ideas of agape are pretty much unknown here. So again, it's not really about speaking fluent Chinese but understanding the cultural chasms which, although I don't subscribe to the inscrutability of them as do some, are not exactly transparent either. Maybe life really is a school-room; only the lessons are expensive, as the saying goes. Just make sure we learn them and don't pay twice for the same real-estate (Patton).

I wish you wisdom and grace and fortitude,

David

贺也者，天下之达到也 - The Middle Way

[BrandeX]

You can't just grab your kid and get on a plane. You need a temporary Chinese passport and a "pro-something" visa to the USA in it for the child. both ofthose will be nullified and you will just have your regular citizenship for America when you arrive, and will need a standard China visa for the child to go back to China. You will not be getting past security with a child who has an American passport with no China visa in it.

[David W Jackson]

A few further musings: familiarity breeds contempt. Living together there's always the danger that we can take one another for granted. Love is fragile and we are often not its best caretakers. Hurts which go unprocessed and bottled fester and become utterly toxic hardening attitudes and causing polarised implacable positions. Conversely, humility and absence can make the heart grow fonder or at least a period of separation can work wonders. I'm happy to report that is has done in my case, to my very great yet pleasant surprise. Almost three months apart has served as a 'pattern interrupt' (if you're familiar with NLP)and allowed some of the malware to be gotten rid of leaving a nice clean disk and functionality. The many challenges still remain; however, we are now reconciled and cherish each other all the more. When our hearts expand with compassion we can more readily see that we are all victims of victims doing the best we can with what we've received. We cannot give to others what we ourselves have not received. Love conquers all, they say. So, as the Latin motto on the gate of Warwick Castle goes: Dum spiro, spero. While I breathe, I hope and that hope springs eternal. Grab yourself a big chunk and hang on to it for dear life.

http://www.google.com.hk/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=broken+marriages+restored&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8