Going to Kunming

[faluang]

Hello.

I wil be in Kunming and will be studying Mandarin for atleast 3 months and if I like I will be staying another 3 months.

I know Tenwest Mandarin school. I found them on the internet and offer private courses, if you know more about this school please comment.

Does Yunnan University also offer these kind of "more private" daily courses and do they issue student visa for these type of courses?

A Chinese friend told me I could find an apartment (+- 50 sqm - living room, bedroom, kitchen and bathroom) within a reasonable distance to the city centre for 1000 RMB. What if I want to rent an apartment in the middle of the city centre in a pleasent area for about 1500 RMB or less, is this possible?

I'm a Chinese language beginner and I need personal training. Any advice about where I should go to get my Mandarin Chinese language skills to the second level? I want to start learning pinyin only. I want to speak and understand. Later on I want to start learning the characters. What do you think about this?

So I need to find the right school where I could get the right personal training for me to start learning Mandarin as a beginner and want to know a good area in the city centre where I could find an apartment for 1500 RMB or preferably less.

The first days when I arrive I would like to stay in a pleasent hostel where there are other students to be found so I can feel comfortable ofcourse.

Shoot me some comments please.

Thank you and hands up if you give me advice! I would appreciate it alot. I travelled around China for about 2 months. Now i'm going back to learn the language. I started learning pinyin on my own, counting from 1 to 10 and further on. It would ofcourse be better to be there and practice it in the streets. I hope it's possible to have a conversation with someone in Mandarin overthere, is it?

[putonghua73]

Hi Faluang,

Let's tackle your questions one at a time:

1.Language schools

By private, I guess you mean 1-2-1 tuition. There are now quite a few language schools offering 1-2-1 tuition:

Keats

KCELE (Kunming College East Language Culture)

SFL (Summit Foreign Language)

Tenwest

Big thread in Kunming forum all about Keats. Not much information regarding KCELE's 1-2-1 offerings; heard good things about SFL in a couple of threads and GoKunming; also heard good things about Tenwest, although my friend mentioned that he didn't think the 1-2-1 was as good as Keats. That said, it is cheaper.

I think you need to be studying for more than 3 months to obtain a student visa? abcdefg might be able to provide a more authoritative response (or do a search in the 'Visa' forum).

There are other language schools cropping up, however, I feel the above seem to be the more reputable for 1-2-1 tuition. Before choosing a language school and paying out money, take a look first at the schools, ask questions about the school and ask for feedback from the other students. Also, make sure that the school has a licence to provide Chinese teaching to foreigners. The above schools should be fine, so you needn't worry about the licence. Others however ...

You can also find a private tutor. Adverts on Gokunming.com and/or in coffee shops. Before you pay out money, make sure that the tutor is a 'Teaching Chinese as a Foreign Language' under-graduate / graduate and has teaching experience. Being a native speaker is not enough, as you're paying for a professional, not a well (or otherwise) meaning amatuer.

2. Apartments

You should be able to find a decent place for between 1,000 - 1,500 RMB. Check out this thread and Gokunming.com to get a feel for prices. Again, abcdefg should be able to provide a more authoritative response, as I'm living at Keats so have no experience of the rental market. That said, you can find cheaper places if you use an estate agent, but will definitely need a Chinese friend to help you navigate and bargin on your behalf.

I personally wouldn't wish to live around Nanping jie or Xiaoximen (center) - too busy, too noisy. I imagine around Green Park and/or Wen Lin Jie might suit you. Two BIG tips: don't live next to a major road (traffic noise) or next to construction (you'll be constantly woken up by construction). Take a walk around the area first to get a feel for the area in terms of noise, and to potentially spy any 'new' construction.

3. Language aims

Plenty of good information already in the 'Learn Chinese' sub-forums. On a personal note, I feel that pinyin is a crutch and should be cast aside. No-one - and I mean no-one - uses or will understand pinyin. Pinyin is a learning aid for pronouncing characters / words - nothing more. I also feel learning to read (characters / words) helps cement understanding and will improve your learning. I have mixed feelings on writing because I use SCIM (Simplified Chinese Input) to write Chinese; rarely, if ever writing Chinese (or English) by hand.

If you're interested in Chinese for the long-term, as opposed to just wishing to pick up survival Chinese, then I would recommend learning how to read hanzi from the get-go.

4. Hostels / hotels

Aside from Cameilla, I don't know of any other hostels. Oh, students will either be living in school provided accommodation or private apartments - not hostels!

There are plenty of opportunities to practice Mandarin, however be advised that the majority of the time you will encounter Kunminghua [dialect]. Most people understand Mandarin; anyone who has a university education will be able to speak Mandarin, and can probably speak (but certainly read) English. You won't be having conversations for quite a while because your Mandarin ability will be too poor!

Plenty of opportunites for language exchange because demand in Kunming, far and away outstrips supply (English speaking people).

Cheers!

[faluang]

Thank you for the honest reply.

I will be going to a hostel. I won't be paying any private school or university in advance because I want to visit the place and meet the people before I do so.

You wrote that only the educated people speak Mandarin, so when I will be buying food at a food stall the people won't understand what i'm trying to say and I won't be understanding what they are saying? In this case I would have doubts about Kunming and learning the Chinese Mandarin language. If I can only speak to educated people then my chances of speaking Mandarin to random people I encounter would be rather low, or am I wrong?

I will not be living inside a school dormitory. I want to rent a room in an apartment with other students or maybe rent my own, I also like to cook myself and I do this because this is something I am very strict on when i'm living somewhere on a longterm basis (3+ months). I remember learning alot by just ordering food in Thailand when I went out to eat almost everyday and this helped me alot to improve my Thai language skills. If what i'm learning in class or private courses isn't understandable for most people who are doing their daily lives outside of the school then I think Kunming maybe isn't the right place for me to go, or am I wrong?

My Chinese language skills are very low. I don't understand anything. I'm starting from 0. The only thing I can do is count to 10. When I want to say something it takes me alot of time because I have to take out my English-Mandarin pocket book and look up what I want to say thanks to the romanized characters also named pinyin.

Language schools probably won't be a problem. I will visit them and probably find an institution that will suit my needs and just start learning the language. My main concern is: Can I actually use the Kunming Mandarin Chinese lessons when i'm outside of the classroom in Kunming?

[GladOn]

Hello,

Great introduction from putonghua73, however i'd like to rectify one point and add one or two more. :rolleyes:

About the schools in Kunming,

1.Language schools

By private, I guess you mean 1-2-1 tuition. There are now quite a few language schools offering 1-2-1 tuition:

Keats

KCELE (Kunming College East Language Culture)

SFL (Summit Foreign Language)

Tenwest

SFL is not Summit Foreign Language.

I can understand the oversight, but Summit Foreign Language don't use this acronym. They always called themselves "Summit Foreign Language"

It stands for "Study Foreign Language" which is to differentiate from Summit Foreign Language.

SFL (Study Foreign Language) is where I studied and I have to say that it was quite good and interesting. They're using a lot of new technologies to arrange their classes and I was agreeably surprised by their method.

BTW,i'm not sure about KCELE, i would say KCELC, there are some posts about that ...

=============================

As for a place to stay, if you are looking for an apartment, where ever, you will need to pay agency fees (except you can find an apartment through another channel) and a deposit when you enter the place. This information just to remind that for a flat's rent of 1500rmb, if you stay 3 months, you'll have to pay at least 5 months, 7500rmb.

Other hostels you might want to check (additionally to the Camelia) is Cloudland (but i don't know exactly where it is) and the Hump. These are places where foreigners used to stay when they arrive in Kunming and while looking for a "better" place to stay.

Hump is in the center of the city.

About "learning Chinese in Kunming" and the problems mentioned (accent), i think this is something you can not avoid. All over China and in every city you will meet this problem, even in Shanghai or Beijing (where another problem is, that they speak more English and you get few chances to put your language skills in practice).

What putonghua73 said is that if you talk with people not older than 30-35, you will be able to communicate better with them because they will be able to speak Mandarin Chinese. (there are still a lot of younger people)

But if you meet people over 40-45, the communication might be a bit more difficult because, at best, they will use Mandarin with accent or a mix of Kunminghua and Mandarin.

Generally speaking, those who can speak Mandarin, they will [try] do it with foreigners.

This question of accent can be found in most languages. Learning and understanding a language is also a question of being able to adapt to your environment. If I speak English with a guy from Texas, London or Tokyo, I won't have the same clear and accent-free English. The same for German, according to the region I'm travelling to, I won't meet the same clear and accent-free German all over Germany (same for North-France and South-France).

Faluang, no need to worry so much about that. All Chinese learners meet this situation and the majority deal with it without big problems. In my opinion, this is a part of every language.

So, to answer your question : yes you can use what you learned during your lessons when you go outside. But don't expect to meet all the time a clear and standard Mandarin Chinese like you'll be used to listen during your classes (considering your teacher is speaking a clear and standard Mandarin).

If you have other questions, do not hesitate ;)

Glad

[faluang]

I don't have any more questions at the moment. I'll be arriving at Cloudland hostel within the next 20 days. I'll be subsribing myself at a private school and i'll be looking for a shared apartment to live in. That's it folks! Thanks and hands up to both of you Putonghua, Glad and all the other topics and replys about studying and living in Kunming here on this forum! Keep on the good work and you just keep tuned on how things will go for me. I'll post back here once in a while about my experiences in Kunming. Big up!

[abcdefg]

Sorry guys, I’ve been asleep at the switch. Didn't see your questions. Maybe I can help you most at this late stage by talking about the school.

 

I took one to one instruction at KCELC (I will just call it Dongfang – 昆明东方语言文化学校 ) from the start of their spring semester in mid February of this year until its end in mid July. Here’s their web link so we can be clear that we are talking about the same place: My link

 

It cost about 11,000 RMB for two hours of instruction daily, Monday through Friday over the course of that 20-week semester. My recollection is that it calculated out at about 55 RMB per hour. I think you can contract for a smaller amount of hours at a slightly higher rate, probably 65. The actual teaching time is cut a little short by breaks. The current central campus classrooms on Dongfengxilu, near Xiaoximen are noisy (heavy traffic outside) but the staff is obliging and I knew some of them from last year. I don’t know about their other campuses (north and west.)

 

At the beginning of each year it’s always a struggle to figure out what book to use and what level to study unless you have been enrolled in a standard university-level Chinese course prior to coming. The universal placement interview consists of “How long have you studied Chinese?” Doesn’t matter if it’s been part time or full time or time and a half. Then you just try out different classes and textbooks and see how they seem to fit. It’s very hit or miss. (This is not just true at Dongfang, it is true most everywhere.)

 

At Dongfang the group classes are in the morning and all the rooms are full then, so they try to schedule one-to-one for afternoons. That may or may not be to your liking. Furthermore, not a lot of other students are there in the afternoons, so if you like to socialize a lot with your foreign peers on breaks, make friends and such; it’s probably not the best bet for you.

 

The first three weeks I had three different teachers. The first teacher wanted me to rote memorize the entire lessons, even verbatim dialogue such as “Then Tianfang said to Mali, we should ride our bikes to the bookstore because today is Sunday and the bus will be too crowded.” I didn’t want to do that, so we parted ways. The second teacher was already overly busy and just stepped in as a temp while management scouted around for a longer-term replacement. The third one was a winner and we stayed together until the end. She was well qualified (even had a masters in teaching Chinese) but worked most of her day at another campus.

 

I consider the teacher a critically important factor in the “school learning” equation and have found out the hard way that it’s worth taking the trouble to “get it right.” I think it’s even more important with one-to-one instruction. Two hours a day of undiluted face to face time sitting on opposite sides of a desk is very intense, and can be miserable if you and the teacher are not a good fit. All my instruction took place in Chinese, as it should. I’ve been studying off and on for about three years and want it that way.

 

Dongfang will get you a student visa if you want one. I didn’t take them up on it this year because I wanted to retain my flexibility and didn’t mind the 90-day visa runs for a change of scenery. Not sure if they will do it for only three months; need to ask. My guess is they probably will. Teaching Chinese to foreigners has become a competitive business in Kunming (and elsewhere) and most schools realize it’s sensible to oblige with added services like that. Some small ones cannot because they don’t have the appropriate government certifications.

 

What I always do is arrange two hours a day of one-to-one professional instruction through a school and then hire a tutor on my own for two hours a day as a supplement. I use the classifieds in GoKunming to advertise for that. Link here: www.gokunming.com. It lets me pay slightly less, but moreover I can focus on something I think might not be getting stressed enough in school. Last year I used it to write Hanzi since I saw that as my main deficiency at the time; this year I used it to read simple non-school books since my reading ability was sub-par. Also exposes me to two teaching styles and points of view. Usually costs from 30 to 50 RMB per hour. Both years I’ve hired local grad students who were looking for part time work.

 

Personally I prefer this kind of arrangement to the four hours a day that I previously got at Keats. I also prefer to rent an apartment instead of living in a dorm, in part because it makes me more "immersed." I hasten to add that I was extremely pleased with Keats, and studied there several times for shorter periods when I was in earlier stages of the learning process. They are as honest as the day is long and take real good care of you. Very kind and competent people. You won’t get as much “hand holding” at Dongfang. I would not hesitate to recommend Keats to someone who is in the situation of the original poster, with very little local language or China living experience already under his belt.

 

In parting I would advise that you don’t get all exercised and worried about the Kunming dialect. Learn your Putonghua diligently and it isn’t usually that difficult to get along outside of class. You will have tons of practice. Also, if you don’t understand something a Kunming person says, you can always take solace in blaming it on “that damned dialect” instead of feeling bad about your own deficiency in conversational Chinese.

 

Long post. Couldn’t be helped.

[Meng Lelan]

even had a masters in teaching Chinese

Wow...where did she get the master's in teaching Chinese?

[abcdefg]

Quote

Wow...where did she get the master's in teaching Chinese?

At Yunnan Daxue 云南大学。 Had two years experience. Taught small classes at another campus, but agreed to take me as a one to one student. (I think the teachers earn a little more from teaching a class compared with one-to-one.)