Hello (: Few questions

[sapsapz]

Hello, I'm new here (:

It's really nice to find a forum dedicated to people who are learning chinese.

I've started to study mandarin chinese, and i'm using the rosetta stone program, if anyone here is familiar with it.

I have a few questions, which i will be grateful to get answers for. They are somewhat mixed in nature, so I hope i posted this in the correct forum.

First of all, about the pronunciation of the letter "r", for example in the word "nan ren" or "nu ren". how do you say it, exactly?

It sounds to me a bit like the french R and a bit like the russian Ж (zh). so... how do you pronounce it?

Second of all, what exactly is the difference between "zhe ge" and "yi ge"? is it something like... "The" and "a"?

Third of all (: , why do we say, for example, yi LIANG che (car), yi ZHI gou (dog), yi ZHI mao (cat), yi PI ma (horse), yi GE nan ren (man)?

What's the meaning of those preliminary words, and why do they change from object to object?

I would be very grateful to recieve any other tips about learning chinese as well, i'm really starting from scratch here.

Thank you!

[Duncan Leung]

Hey there, welcome to the forum.

I did use Rosetta stone a bit, so I can see where your questions are coming from.

First of all, about the pronunciation of the letter "r", for example in the word "nan ren" or "nu ren". how do you say it, exactly?

It sounds to me a bit like the french R and a bit like the russian Ж (zh). so... how do you pronounce it?

Sorry, I actually don't know French or Russian so I won't be able to help on this one =p

Second of all, what exactly is the difference between "zhe ge" and "yi ge"? is it something like... "The" and "a"?

Third of all (: , why do we say, for example, yi LIANG che (car), yi ZHI gou (dog), yi ZHI mao (cat), yi PI ma (horse), yi GE nan ren (man)?

What's the meaning of those preliminary words, and why do they change from object to object?

"zhe ge" 这个 translates to "this"

"yi ge" 一个 translates to "one"

"yi liang che" 一辆车

"yi zhi gou" 一只猫

"yi zhi mao" 一只狗

"yi pi ma" 一匹马

"yi ge nan ren" 一个男人

个, 辆, 只,  匹, are 'measure words' that are used to denote the amount/type of noun.

To my understanding (which could be wrong- so other people do chime in)

ge 个: is usually for people/objects/things

liang 辆: is usually for vehicles

zhi 只: is usually for animals

pi 匹: is usually for horses/mules

I hope that helps!

[sapsapz]

Thanks Duncan!

great answer! about the "r" in "ren", can you advise me on how to pronounce it, regardless of comparisons to those other languages?

[Duncan Leung]

about the "r" in "ren", can you advise me on how to pronounce it, regardless of comparisons to those other languages?

Well, I'm not sure how to compare it to another language =\

You can take another listen to the sound-clip that is attached to the word at mdbg.net

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddict&wdrst=0&wdqb=%E4%BA%BA

The word, 人 'ren' is more of an 'R' sound though, and not a 'ZH' sound (not the best explanation I don't think since this is like a cyclical answer...).

I don't think it'd be wrong to say that 人 'ren', sounds like the English verb 'Run'?

Hope that helps!

[renzhe]

Counting words and measure words are a very important part of Chinese. They exist in some forms in other languages too: a flock of birds, a coven of witches, a pack of wolves, a herd of sheep, etc. You can't have a flock of witches and a pack of sheep.

In Chinese, it is even more thorough, and there are counting words which gramatically connect a number with a noun, and it often depends on the type of the noun, e.g. 一个人, 一头牛, 一只狗, 一辆车, 一所大学, 一家饭店, 一条路 etc. You have to learn the correct measure word as you go along, it's typically no big deal, and 个 can always be used as a poor substitute if you're not sure.

As for the pronunciation of "r", these things are always best learned by listening to a native speaker and having them explain in person, but it is pronounced exactly the same as the Czech "ř", which is halfway between a Spanish "r" and the g in French "mirage".

[Jane_PA]

Close your upper teeth and lower teeth, curl your touge, the tounge point to the upper mouth, pronounce r of rate. Hope my poor English description is helpful...

[Shelley]

Hello,

I have been studing Chinese for about 25 years now, I use Rossetta Stone for practice but I wouldn't use it as my primary learning source for the very reasons you demonstrated in your questions. I would start with a proper course of lessons that explain the grammer and usage. When I first used Rossetta Stone one of the first things I thought was, I am glad this is not my first lesson! You really need something to teach you all these things. Get a book based course and use Rossetta Stone for practice. Good luck and enjoy learning Chinese.

Shelley

P.S. One tip I would mention, in my opinion it is best to learn Speech and writing together. Learn pinyin and characters at the same time. It seems like a lot but I found it helps.

[leosmith]

It sounds to me a bit like the french R and a bit like the russian Ж

I think you mean "It sounds to me a bit like the french J and a bit like the russian Ж"

[querido]

I found John Pasden's personal story beautiful and inspiring, and his How To page has some of the best explanations I'm aware of for fishing out and discovering the Chinese sounds from between sounds you already know how to make.

[Caidanbi]

I don't speak French, but I do speak Russian. It's really not like the Russian Ж (at least, not to me). I'm not very good at describing things like this, I just try to mimic what I hear.

As for your other question, Duncan is right. 这个 means "this" and 一个 means "one". I've also seen 一个 translated as "a/an" in certain instances.

[mfgillia]

Started with Rosetta Stone and think its generally fine though I strongly believe based on my own struggles that every new student of Chinese should be forced to spend 3-6 months against their will working one on one with a trained native Chinese speaking tutor do nothing but drilling proper pronunciation and tones. You'll hate it, likely quit and have your ego demolished after hours of countless correction versus the happy beginning student that breezes through Pimsleur or RS. However, if you survive you'll conversation skills will be far superior to your peers that skipped this process and each new word you add to your vocabulary with RS will have a far greater chance of being understood in actual conversations.

Ok enough rambling - RS uses a total immersion process so doesn't explicitly explain anything. So get a copy of Claudia Ross's Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar and use that as a companion reference book when something is nagging you and just can't figure it out. If you really want to study each topic in-depth then get the matching workbook though probably a good idea to skip that until quite a bit later. Good luck!