Taking it serious ..

[Chantry Cargill]

Hey everyone,

I've been trying to learn mandarin chinese since the start of the summer and although I have learned a bit of vocabulary and some chinese grammar, I don't feel like I am progressing as well as I would like and I'm starting to think I have been going about it all wrong.

I basically started with pimsleur and got through maybe the first 3 lessons .. I didn't like it at all due to the lack of visuals. I would prefer to learn to speak and write at the same time, so I stopped using it. I had a transcript for it, but I still didn't like learning in that way. It wasn't effective for me at all.

I then tried learning large amounts of vocabulary. I started with 100 or so radicals, then learned a bunch of common words using flash cards, but I still didn't feel like I was really progressing. I know this isn't an effective way to learn .. I still have to continuously look up words I have already studied and go "ooooohhh" and then continue.

Finally, I starting working through an online textbook like webpage. It was effective, but it introduced far too many words per lesson and I grew tired of it. For the last little while I haven't really progressed at all and have slowly started to give up. I think my main problem is I don't have the resources I should be using .. I don't know many verbs or nouns and it kind of scares me when I think of how many verbs are combinations of characters.

Basically what I'm thinking of doing now is buying a textbook that would allow me to practise maybe an hour a day and slowly progress. Structure is probably more important than anything, so I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions? I know this has probably been asked a thousand times, but any suggestions on good textbooks or on anything else I should be doing would really be appreciated.

I absolutely love the chinese language and I'm not ready to give up yet!

[renzhe]

Basically what I'm thinking of doing now is buying a textbook that would allow me to practise maybe an hour a day and slowly progress. Structure is probably more important than anything, so I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions?

I think that you've basically figured it out already.

There are many textbook recommendations on this forum. Popular textbooks include New Practical Chinese Reader, Integrated Chinese, DeFrancis Reader and Boya. I suggest reading around the forum for dozens of discussion threads on the topic, and I recommend googling them and having a look at which you think will suit you.

Once you find a good textbook, spend a few hours a week on it, follow it (one lesson every week or every two weeks). The rest of the time should be flashcards, reading anything you can get your hands on, listening to anything you can find, and simply banging at it until it starts making sense. Be warned -- it takes longer than people usually expect.

[jbradfor]

• Slow(er) but steady beats "manic-depression"-style learning.
  
• Don't get burned out; make sure learning Chinese stays interesting.
  
• Used SRS-based flashcard programs to learn vocabulary.
  
• Read these forums regularly.
  

[feihong]

Have you considered taking a class? I think the beginning is the hardest part. There is so much to study, and it's hard to decide what to study. Being in a class is nice because the teacher tells you what to study, and your fellow students provide moral support.

From my own experience, I've mostly been learning through self study, but those two classes I took in college really helped get me started.

[Chantry Cargill]

Thanks for the advice .

One thing I have been having problems with is learning the different meanings of sounds and all the different compound words out there. Should I try to concentrate on non-compound words until I'm fluent with them before I try compound ones? And are there flash cards on the internet for compound words?

Also, has anyone tried a beginner textbook that they really liked and would be worth ordering? There's not many in my local book store, so if I order one I want to make sure it's something I'll be happy with.

[Jane_PA]

Do you take any Chinese class?

It maybe helpful to take a class because, then, the language will be alive one. Somebody teaches you, evaluate your progress, and also talks about that with you, which should be more fun then learning by self-study.

[Chantry Cargill]

I haven't taken a class .. mainly because there aren't any in the area. I live in a small-ish city in Canada, so the chances of finding anything related to chinese are small. I did look at my university programs, but all they seem to have are the romantic languages.

[renzhe]

Have you successfully learned a language before? If not, then I'd really recommend a teacher, although I understand that it's difficult in your area.

The best way to learn a language in any case is to follow a language program which will introduce grammar and vocabulary in context.

The memorisation and flashcarding routines many people do is a complement to this, not a replacement. Memorising lots of flashcards alone will get you nowhere.

[jbradfor]

One thing I have been having problems with is learning the different meanings of sounds

Do you really mean sounds here? As in all the meanings for a given "sound" (i.e. pinyin word)? The number of homophones in Chinese is stunning; just focusing on the sound without knowing the character, if you are focusing on a word-by-word basis, is pretty much a lost cause. Focusing on the meaning of words (typically multiple characters together) is possible, of course, as that's how native speakers learns.

Should I try to concentrate on non-compound words until I'm fluent with them before I try compound ones?

What is a non-compound word? Do you mean single sounds?

If you are learning the characters as well, there is some debate over learning characters vs words.

And are there flash cards on the internet for compound words?

Tons and tons.

[Meng Lelan]

Also, has anyone tried a beginner textbook that they really liked and would be worth ordering?

Normally I recommend the New Practical Chinese Reader, if you really absolutely cannot take a class at all, then get the audio and video CDs with the text. A complete beginner would best begin with a formal class.

Actually I'm supposed to test pilot a new beginning textbook this year, if it does come in the mail this week, and it's supposed to be very interactive. Then again I can't recommend it to you yet because it's not even on the market now.

[Chantry Cargill]

Thank you . I really appreciate the detailed responses from everyone, especially considering you probably have to deal with people in my situation a little too often on the forums.

I've decided that I'm going to purchase Practical Chinese Reader. I looked online for a wordlist and looked at a preview of some of the lessons and it really looks promising. It has more than enough content to get me started and keep me busy for a long time. I also have Pimsleur, so I'll try to listen to it mainly to learn pronunciation. I think it would be more beneficial to find someone fluent in chinese in my area .. I have a friend that can speak Cantonese and I sooo wish he could speak mandarin.

One positive is that I have learned some lasting information about the language so far. I still feel completely lost, but looking through the wordlist for Practical Chinese, I realized that I have learned a considerable bit. That's encouraging, because I almost failed applied French in grade 9 and was probably the worst in my grade. I want to prove to myself that I can do this!

Meng Lelan: I would love to hear what you think of the new textbook you're testing, so feel free to drop me a message when you've looked at it ;).

[gato]

Note it should be "New Practical Chinese Reader" rather than "Practical Chinese Reader".

[SiMaKe]

@Chantry Cargill

NPCR is truly an excellent series. However, since you are learning on your own you should be aware that English translations are not provided for much of the material (dialogues, examples, readings, etc). So you have no idea if what you think you are reading is, in fact, what you are reading. Consider taking a look at the Integrated Chinese series (a fully updated 3rd Ed came out not too long ago). Translations are provided for all dialogues and examples, video and audio clips are available, and each chapter starts with an explanation of what your learning objectives are for the chapter. U of Hawaii website also has supplementary material geared to this series. Disadvantage is that the textbook, etc are a little pricey.

Good luck and come back often.

[jbradfor]

Note it should be "New Practical Chinese Reader" rather than "Practical Chinese Reader".

OTOH, if you really do want PCR rather than NPCR, you can have my edition I used in '88. I'll sell it to you reallll cheap.

That's encouraging, because I almost failed applied French in grade 9 and was probably the worst in my grade. I want to prove to myself that I can do this!

I DID fail Spanish in grade 11. And again in grade 12. The same class.

So yes, it is possible for people with zero language ability to learn Chinese. It just takes more work.

[Meng Lelan]

Spanish was super hard for me. I failed it too.

[jbradfor]

But you're in Texas! I thought Spanish is basically a second language there....

[Chantry Cargill]

Thanks again everyone .

I'm trying out an online series right now, but after I'm finished with that I'm going to try the Integrated Chinese Series. It looks like it has more of what I need with all the illustrations and extra reinforcement on the material.

I'll try to stick around the forums as well. It looks like quite the welcoming community.