PhD or Master's in China

[Brandon263]

Hi guys,

Have any of you completed or enrolled in a PhD or other graduate program in China?

If so, I was hoping you would share your experiences, especially how it differs from your other educational experiences and what your future plans are.

Thanks a lot!

[aristotle1990]

John of Sinosplice has a good post about this.

[Brandon263]

Thanks a lot aristotle1990! Can other people who are in China on non-language programs please share their experiences? Thanks!

[gato]

Try searching the forum for the keywords "master's" or "phd".

[Brandon263]

Try searching the forum for the keywords "master's" or "phd".

Hi, I already did that and there's no thread with the specific information I'm asking for. Thanks for replying anyway.

[gato]

Are you sure? How about these threads:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/23269-master-in-china/page__view__findpost__p__191388

Master in China

[ma3zi1]

I might actually be able to help you out a bit.

After graduating from UCSD with a B.S. in Chemistry, I considered going to a Chinese-speaking university for a PhD in Chemistry or Biochemistry. I looked at 新加坡國立大學 (Singapore) as well as 北京大學 and 清華大學 (which are both in Beijing).

To entertain this possibility, I arranged to stay for one summer at 北京大學 and work as a volunteer in an academic research lab. In return for my work, I was provided with an apartment. Rent was free, but utilities and food were at my own expense. I arranged this by spamming the professors of the Chemistry department with emails, asking for a temporary volunteer research opportunity.

The lab was part of the molecular spectroscopy group (分子譜光團). In the group there were about 4 professors (one of which was the head professor) and there were about 4 graduate students. At the beginning of the summer there were also a few undergrad researchers finishing up their projects. Each non-head professor was responsible for at least one graduate student and maybe one undergrad. I was told that this is the typical system at 北京大學.

The whole group met together for meetings, and almost everyone in the group got their name on every paper (even if they weren't working on that project at all). The head professor had done a post-doc in an English-speaking country (which is typical). He could speak decent English, and he wrote all the papers. The typical graduate student could not speak English well enough to carry on a real conversation, although they could skim papers pretty efficiently. Most textbooks were in Chinese.

My main responsibility was to correct and edit scientific protocols, patents, or papers written in English. It was not very hard work. I was not allowed to do any experiments if I was not being supervised by at least another graduate student, this was somewhat frustrating as it was waste of time for whomever was designated to watch me.

The spectroscopy equipment was all shared within the building and run by technicians for the most part. Most software that people used was in English, and graduate students usually just memorized which buttons to press if their English was sub-par. In general, labs were very dirty and the floors, hoods, and benches were not cleaned on a regular basis.

To formally enroll in a PhD program, there is the issue of passing the HSK (漢語水平考試) which is essentially the same thing as the TOEFL, but for Chinese. It used to be that you had to get at least 5 out of 8 to pursue a science degree at any Chinese-speaking university. Now that they changed the structure of the exam, the required score might be different. To enroll in a program for a non-science PhD, you would have to get a much higher HSK score.

That being said, a science graduate student who speaks English as a first language would be infinitely more valuable to someone at 北京大學 than a Chinese student at an American university with the highest possible TOEFL score. So, it seems likely that anyone who is really truly interested in enrolling for a science PhD at some place like 北京大學 might be able to get the rules bent a little if their Chinese was just okay.

My experience was that the equipment was nice, the labs were dirty, and it was hard to get free access to read anything in the literature. At 北京大學, more than 95% of all science was discussed in Chinese, even at conferences. There were equivalent words for basically every English scientific term. If you can get used to living there for 5-6 years, then it might be viable option.

A better option might be to look at 臺灣國立大學 (a.k.a. 臺大) in Taiwan. There a lot of science is done in English, or a lot of English words are peppered in among the Chinese whenever people talk science. Furthermore, the culture in Taiwan is easier to accommodate to for someone from a western country (in my opinion).

I hope that answers some of your questions. The real question (as stated above) is why one would choose to go to a lower tier university in a foreign country, but arguably there are good reasons for this if you want to go into business. If you want to go into academics, it may not be the best option.

[jbradfor]

So where did you end up doing your PhD?

The real question (as stated above) is why one would choose to go to a lower tier university in a foreign country

For someone unlikely to go to a top tier school in the USA, do you think an English-native-speaker could go to a better school in China, with their English skills making up for their (somewhat) drawbacks?

[eatfastnoodle]

In China, it doesn't matter whether you are in master or PhD program, publication is paramount, you publish more papers on better journals and conferences, you get to graduate soon. That's pretty much the only thing that count. In the US, as far as I can tell, it's pretty much the same for PhD students, but not so much for people in the master program. Remember, the master program in China was fundamentally designed to train people to do academic work, which I don't think is something a master student should focus on. There are specific rules regarding how many and what level of publications you MUST have in order to graduate, it doesn't matter whether it's in Chinese, English or some other languages, you NEED to publish, if you could do all you research in English and only communicate it with your advisor, fine, you can graduate in no time as long as you have sufficient publications. Publish or perish, this bastard rule applies to PhD students in the US, but it applies to ALL graduate students in China. That's the biggest difference, especially if you were only interested in a master, you might experience in term of the system itself as far as I can tell.

[ma3zi1]

@jbradfor:

I started my PhD at UC Berkeley. Then, after a year at Berkeley, I left their program and started over again at Caltech. I'm still at Caltech now, about to start my 4th year.

In response to what you said about not likely making it into a top-tier US school, I think you are right to expect to be able make it into a top-tier school in Taiwan, China, or Singapore. Especially in Taiwan, your fluency in English will make you a top commodity for publishing in the famous western journals (PNAS, JACS, JMB, etc...).

Be careful though because you will need to make sure you pick a good lab. Some labs will not be doing research of a high enough caliber to be able to publish it in an English journal. Those labs will most likely only publish in Chinese journals, which only Chinese people will read.

If you end up at National Taiwan University (NTU), you might be able to spend your entire scientific career there speaking English. In fact, your colleagues will likely encourage you to do so for their own benefit. However, if you want a social life outside of lab, you'll need to be able speak good Chinese. If you want to enjoy the culture of Taiwan on a deeper level, you'll need to be pretty literate in Chinese as well.

On the contrary, at Peking University (PKU), you will likely be conducting most of your scientific discussions in Chinese because otherwise no one but the head professor will understand you very well. However, your fluency in written English would be highly valuable to any lab there.

So I guess the answer to your question is a very likely "yes".

[Brandon263]

Thanks for your response eatfastnoodle, it was really helpful. I guess I should start working on my publishing!

I've been accepted to a social science PhD program at Fudan on a full scholarship. I think it would be much better for me to accept the offer and study there because I think I could get a much better publication record actually living, studying and experiencing China on a day-to-day basis.

Everyone has been warning me to not go to China (stuff about how worthless the PhD would be and how it would mar my academic rep forever), except for the China specialists at my university. They were actually encouraging me to go, saying Fudan is a great school, and that academic success depends more on quality of research and publication than the name of your PhD provider. I hope they're right!

I'll be taking a language for a year before I start the PhD so I have about 3/4 months to decide whether I want to continue with the PhD at Fudan or apply to US unis. Decisions...

[lorenz]

Hi Brandon263.

I'm going to get soon my master degree in International Development and my interests are very China-related (actually I'm writing my dissertation about the Reform of the social welfare system in China). I looked around to find a good master (English-taught, because my Chinese is very poor) on China development (I'm particularly interested in economic and social points of view) and I finally found 5, whose 4 are located in Beijing (Beida, Qinghua, Renmin and Beijing Normal) and one in Fudan, that is the "EMA in Chinese society and public policy". Have you ever heard about that? Do you know anyone who is actually getting that master? I know that you have been enrolled in the PhD program (btw, did you finally continued in Fudan? how is it going?), but anyways..

Lorenzo

[Sofia80]

[Sofia80]

[Anatoliy]

I just found this old topic and it really encouges me to keep trying to fulfill my dream of studying a masters dregree in China! 

 

Anyone around with a similar experience in a university in China?

 

 

@Brandon263

 

Any update of your current situation?? did you get the Phd in Fudan??