Grand Comic Reading Project #2: Yotsuba

[jbradfor]

On to volume 3....

How would you translate "別扯開話題" (on page 5)? "Don't change the subject!"?

Why the use of "菸" over "煙" (on pages 14 and on)? Is there a different "feel" to them?

[bTW, thanks feihong for continuing to provide them. I don't know how the later ones look, but the scan quality of volume 3 at least is excellent.]

[feihong]

How would you translate "別扯開話題" (on page 5)? "Don't change the subject!"?

Yup.

Why the use of "菸" over "煙" (on pages 14 and on)? Is there a different "feel" to them?

This is confusing to me as well. However I've noticed that translations for the Taiwanese market do tend to use somewhat unfamiliar characters for common words. Another good example that appears in Yotsuba is using 姊姊 for older sister instead of 姐姐.

[renzhe]

姊 is the common way to write jie3 in Taiwan -- all the Taiwanese subtitles I've seen have used it.

On the Mainland, the character is pretty much obsolete in Mandarin(and read zi3), and replaced by 姐. But it's still alive in some dialects, for example Wu.

菸 (wiktionary) is probably used as a variant of 煙. I don't think that it has a different meaning here.

[jbradfor]

Finished volume 3.... Maybe time for a break now.

But, of course some questions; thanks for all your answers above.

Somewhere between pages 113-120 there seems to be a page missing. I base this on the fact that there are 7 jpg files (115.jpg-121.jpg) for what should be 8 pages.

On page 103, what does "請您多多關照" mean? From the context, it is clear that the man is passing out something (an ad I assume) and asking people to look at it. Is this a common Chinese expression? Or a translation from a common Japanese expression?

Could someone explain the joke on page 121 to me? Or at least give me a hint?

On page 130, interesting tone on 便便 . This is the only bian1 pronunciation for 便 showing up....

On page 138, what is 搥肩? From the picture on page 140, I'm guessing a massage? Interestingly enough, when I enter 搥肩 into google it changes it 捶肩. MDBG has entries for both 搥 and 捶, pronounced the same, but neither is listed as a variant. And only 捶 has any words listed for it. [Alas, I lost the link skylee(?) gave me some time back to a good variant dictionary....] Also, interestedly, 肩 changes on my screen depending on which font I use. The one shown in the scan as the 戶radical, while the one in firefox has a 户 radical. My email program at home (windows) has 戶, but my email program at work (linux) has 户.

On page 142 is the term 連休. It doesn't appear in the 3 CE dictionaries I checked, and a google search has all hits I get are Japanese. So, using my amazing powers of logic, I'm assuming it's a Japanese term :-) So why is it used? Is this phrase still used in Taiwan due to the influence of the Japanese occupation?

[skylee]

Variant dictionary -> http://dict.variants...edu.tw/main.htm

I have not read the comics, but I think 連休 is a short form of 連續休假 and refers to a longer period of holidays made up of consecutive non-working days (as in 雙休 which refers to the system where people don't have to work on Saturday and Sunday).

"請您多多關照" is perhaps the translation of よろしくお願)いします(yoroshiku onegai shimasu).

[jbradfor]

Thanks skylee, I bookmarked it this time :blink: Humm, I just went there to look up 搥, and, I know this sounds stupid, but I can't find out how to search for characters on that site?

Denshi Jisho does define 連休 as "consecutive holidays", so I think that's right. Thanks!

[skylee]

I can't find out how to search for characters on that site?

That is a very traditional dictionary which uses radicals as the primary keys. Click 字型檢索, then choose 部首索引. Choose the number of strokes of the radicals that you want (e.g. 4 for 手) and click the radical you want. Then choose the number of the rest of the strokes (other than the radical) of the character you are looking for (e.g 10 for 搥) and look for the word you want.

【搥】

撯敲打。同「捶」。如：「搥背」、「搥胸頓足」。南史．卷七十七．恩倖傳．茹法亮傳：「近聞王洪範與趙越常、徐僧亮、萬靈會共語，皆攘袂搥床。」

[jbradfor]

Got it, thanks. I am used to these types of dictionaries, but I assumed that there was a "search" feature in which one could enter a character and it would automatically go to the correct page.... I know, lazy lazy <_< OH! I just realized I can use google instead and add +site:dict.variants.moe.edu.tw. Much better!

So what I get from that is that 搥 and 捶 are not variants of each other, in that they count as different characters, but they can be used more-or-less interchangably? So much to learn....

[skylee]

OH! I just realized I can use google instead and add +site:dict.variants.moe.edu.tw. Much better!

I suppose this would not work if you want to find a variant that you don't know how to type.

[jbradfor]

Very true. Or, more likely, a variant that does not have a separate unicode codepoint, so there is no way to enter it. [i note the vast majority of entires seem to have graphics, rather than text.]

For me personally, however, I don't often read texts that use such variants. If I can avoid getting scolded for not knowing a variant, then I am satisfied

[jbradfor]

Just finished volume 4. Still my favorite series. The scan quality has taken a turn for the worse, but for the most part it is still legible.

Questions. Wow do I have questions.

On scan page 43, there is a character I can not make out on the upper left; anyone can help?

On scan page 60, what does "可以不可以" mean here? I usually would translate it as a question "can or can not", but that doesn't make sense in this context.

On scan page 112, in the phrase "喜歡上一個男人", what does 上 mean here? The rest make sense, "like <something> man"

Also on scan page 112 -- what does "啵" mean here? Is it short for "打啵" (to kiss)? MDBG doesn't give "kiss" as a meaning for 啵 by itself.

On scan page 158, what is that tube? I'm guessing that 朝儀 put it in the milk (that she-devil). I think I can read "白色".

尖尖小帽 -- seems to be some Japanese comic? I think I totally missed the joke about how 朝儀 convinced Yotsuba that 尖尖小帽 is the same as a cicada.

Thanks.

[Gleaves]

I think 輒?

I see 可以是可以, but not 可以不可以.

喜歡上一個男人 - I think this just means I like a boy, or I'm in like with a boy, or I've fallen in like with a boy. In the same way you can say 愛上一個人.

Not sure on the others, but good work on the progress.

[feihong]

On scan page 43, there is a character I can not make out on the upper left; anyone can help?

I think you mean 沒轍? Not sure, since you didn't provide the surrounding characters

On scan page 60, what does "可以不可以" mean here? I usually would translate it as a question "can or can not", but that doesn't make sense in this context.

I can't find that phrase. You don't mean "可以是可以" on the lower right panel, do you?

On scan page 112, in the phrase "喜歡上一個男人", what does 上 mean here? The rest make sense, "like <something> man"

That is just idiomatic usage of 上, I think. I'm not sure if there's any difference in meaning between that and "喜歡一個男人". But I very well could be wrong about this.

Also on scan page 112 -- what does "啵" mean here? Is it short for "打啵" (to kiss)? MDBG doesn't give "kiss" as a meaning for 啵 by itself.

I think it just means kiss. I can't think of an alternate meaning that makes sense.

On scan page 158, what is that tube? I'm guessing that 朝儀 put it in the milk (that she-devil). I think I can read "白色".

I think it's just a tube of toothpaste that was left there by somebody.

尖尖小帽 -- seems to be some Japanese comic? I think I totally missed the joke about how 朝儀 convinced Yotsuba that 尖尖小帽 is the same as a cicada.

My friend who has the Japanese version thinks that it's a reference to some traditional spirit costume, but there's some phonetic wordplay at work (i.e. the name for it sounds similar to cicada), making it a completely incomprehensible joke in Chinese.

[jbradfor]

Thanks to you both.

You both passed the test: you knew which character I couldn't read without my telling you I knew you could do it! I'm glad you had trouble with it as well, as you gave different answers, 轍 vs 輒. ;) According to MDBG, however, neither word really makes sense here, at least not to me.

Yes, I mean "可以是可以". Sigh. But what does that mean? "yes is yes"? Is this just an idiomatic way of saying 可以?

[renzhe]

上 in 喜歡上 is a complement, it means that something has just started.

喜歡一個男人 just means "to like a man". It doesn't say how long, it could have been forever

喜歡上一個男人 means "to start liking a man", "to fall in love with a man", or similar. Somebody caught her eye, and now she likes him

[feihong]

On 轍 vs 輒:

The character is actually 輒, but the meaning is the same as [/url]没辙. Maybe in Taiwan the two characters are interchangeable.

[Insula Formosa]

Sorry if I'm wrong, but isn't this illegally scanned Manga?

[renzhe]

Probably.

Do you have a link to a legal online shop where one can order traditional Chinese version of this comic and have it shipped to Europe or North America? That would be useful. Otherwise, it's extremely difficult to buy Chinese-language comics outside of China. I got my Doraemon comics and my Ranma 1/2 in China and carried them back, but I don't travel there very often.

The main audience of these sites is in China and three or four Chinese learners abroad probably don't make a big difference.

[jbradfor]

When they have an official USA distribution (of the Chinese version -- there is an English version), I'll start to feel guilty.

[Gleaves]

The link Feihong has on the front post (books.com.tw) will ship to the U.S. I doubt they have the actual distribution rights to send to the U.S. or elsewhere, but they'll send it. My copies of Death Note actually say "For Sale in Taiwan Only," but they certainly showed up on my doorstep. My copy of Yotsuba doesn't specify. Anyway, having the scans is great for learners.