皇帝 wristrests - What's it say?

[Chaoslimited]

Greetings... and thanks in advance for any help.

Several years ago I was at an estate sale in the Washington DC area. The house belonged to a man who had served as a diplomat in China and Japan in the 1930s. I purchased a set of old bamboo carved wrist rests. They all had hand sewn cloth sleeves and there was a document with them (with an envelop). I've had Chinese friends try and read it, but they said the script is different and they could only read pieces. The only thing one could determine was the page was like an inventory list or household documnent and that it mentioned the Emperor's cousin or relative.

I know no Chinese, but I've tried to figure out the symbols and have just had no luck. Also, some of the wrist wrests are signed or have poems. So, I'll show a photo of one of the 6 rests in cast something on the wrist rest can help with the text. Most of the items in the house were from around 1890 to 1920. I also bought an old scholar's stone from China... and some old Kimonos.

I don't mind doing my own research if you can point me in the right direction. And, I do believe in Karma and the balance of the world, so if you do help me... I'll gladly try and return the favor some day.

Hopefully I have the images right side up. The key ones are the last two.

And thanks again,

jack

[jbradfor]

I think those are very pretty pieces. Nice buy.

I really have no idea what your Chinese friends meant by "the script is different"; it's pretty clear and standard. Unless they are from China and can only read simplified? Oh well.

I'll type in wrist3.jpg; since you said you wanted to do some of the work yourself, I'll leave the translation for you B)

The left one: 茶合六本

The right one: 肅親王遺愛節符

I'll try to remember to do the rest later, unless someone else jumps in....

[Chaoslimited]

Many thanks. This is great after all these years of wondering!

I think my Chinese friends were only familiar with Simplified. Working with the symbols you provided, it seems to support their "we're not sure, but" attempt at translation that the documents were 1) An inventory list which would fit your first set. My parsing of that would be that it's a kind of label that says "enclosed is a set of six" although I can't get the 茶 symbol to fit in (it comes up as "tea").

2) Supposedly the wrist wrests belonged to a relative of the Emperor which would fit with the Prince Fu or Su symbols. There was a Prince Fu in 19th century China during the Boxer Rebellion. He was described as a Manchu official who had fallen on hard times. Would the document be something like a gift note to or from the Prince?

Anyway, this is a great start. I've had these for years and the estate I bought them from had some amazing things. I wish I knew more about the family history. The wrist rests and scholar stone were piled in a corner of the living room on the floor. Luckily I like to rummage.

Any additional help is appreciated... and thanks again.

Jack

[creamyhorror]

I really have no idea what your Chinese friends meant by "the script is different"; it's pretty clear and standard. Unless they are from China and can only read simplified? Oh well.

I suspect it would be only be quite uneducated China persons who wouldn't be able to read traditional. Maybe his friends just aren't so versed in this style of Chinese and meant that they couldn't figure out the meaning of the text.

Wrist 6 looks like 飞黄传绘 (or 傅绘?). No idea.

[Chaoslimited]

Well, let's put it this way... between their reading or interpretation of the symbols and being able to explain it to me there has been a gap from anyone I've shown these too. Based on Jbradfor's symbols, things fit into the brief "there's something about someone from the emperor's family... and something about an inventory or accounting of items." But maybe the key is the longer message on the page (wrist2). But thanks to both of you. I'm new to this obviously <g>.

jack

[889]

These seem to have been bequeathed by 肅親王 Su Qinwang, usually known in English as Prince Su, the 10th prince in the Su line of Manchu princes, whose personal name was 善耆 Shanqi. He played an important role in the latter years of the Qing Dynasty, and later. Born 1866, he died in 1922.

[jbradfor]

Wrist 6 looks like 飞黄传绘 (or 傅绘?). No idea.

That one is somewhat more difficult.

I think the first character is 乖, leading to 乖黄傅繪(?) for the main text.

I can't get much of the smaller text. I'm pretty sure the first one is 甲 B) I assume the right text is the date, and the left one is a name.

[carlo]

Shanqi was the father of the legendary Yoshiko Kawashima:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshiko_Kawashima

[889]

The year is 甲戌, which at 1874 or 1934 doesn't fit in too well with Prince Su's lifeline.

(愛 is presumably a shorthand for 愛新覺羅, the Manchu imperial family name.)

Finally, you call these wristrests.

But in fact they are tea scoops for the Japanese tea ceremony, 茶合, chagou in Japanese, read chahe in Chinese, and are clearly marked as six teascoops on the documents: 茶合六本.

http://www.arita.or.jp/chaki/chagou.html

[Chaoslimited]

Thanks everyone. I've been following this and my apologies for the delay in thanking you. I'm a new member so I have to wait for the moderator for these first few responses.

So, first about the tea scoops. I agree they look like the set on the web site, but most scoops are closed on one end (so the tea doesn't slip out). And if you search Google for 茶箕 and then select images, you'll see a lot more standard looking scoops.

If you search on "bamboo chinese wrist rests" and look at the images, you'll see pics of items like mine labeled wrist rests. I think some scoops model the design of wrist rests, but mine seem awfully long and wide and shallow to be useful scoops.

But you're right... the one note fits perfectly if they are tea measures. This is almost as fascinating as figuring out the text.

And there are several Prince Su's... correct. So 1874 fits with that later one.

Any idea on the longer note... that might help tie things together.

Thanks again folks! It's nice to finally have progress.

take care,

jack

[Chaoslimited]

(sorry again for being out of synch... it seems I'm queuing up responses)

889... where are the date symbol? In which image? I can't find anything that matches that. On rereading your message, I agree the date doesn't fit if we assume the bequeath was by Prince Su. Could it have been his father?

I can't see my earlier posts yet, so I'm sorry if I'm a bit redundant. I'll hold off until I get in synch again with the messages.

later,

jack

[roddy]

Apologies for the delays, haven't been paying as much attention as usual lately and things are getting backed up a little.

[889]

Myself, I know nothing about the Japanese tea ceremony and its implements; I only know that the label clearly says "6 chagou." Note that 茶合 chagou seems to be a term particular to Japanese for this type of item; I don't find 茶合 chahe in any Chinese-English dictionaries at hand.

The date 甲戌 is inscribed on one of the chagou (see below).

The "large paper" mostly consists of trite descriptions of the scene on each chagou. I'll leave it to others to transcribe and translate these if they wish.

The right inscription on the "large paper" 肅親王遺愛僊媒 seems at first glance to indicate these were bequeathed by Prince Su to one 愛僊媒 Ai Xianmei, but a web search doesn't provide any information on this as a name. A further search, however, indicates that 僊媒 (normally written 仙媒 in modern simplified form) is actually just another Japanese term for 茶合 chagou, read senbai in Japanese and xianmei in Chinese.

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/125781098 (not closed on either end)

A board with more posters familiar with Japanese customs might be of more help with these.

As to actual dating, you need an expert in these to look at them without regard to all the claims made on the papers. You should always be sceptical when considering claims -- new or old -- of imperial connections. The items themselves will speak loudest to an expert, notwithstanding what the papers scream.

[jbradfor]

Note that 茶合 chagou seems to be a term particular to Japanese for this type of item; I don't find 茶合 chahe in any Chinese-English dictionaries at hand.

The MDBG entry for 合 says in part "old variant of 盒", which might fit in better with your saying it is a tea scoop.

[889]

It's possible that 合 is a Japanese variant of 盒.

And just as 茶合 seems to be a Japanese word, so does 節符, though I'm not sure of its meaning in Japanese.

All this is why I think the OP needs some Japanese expertise, especially with regard to evaluating the items themselves.

[Chaoslimited]

Okay... to summarize, it looks like I have six tea scoops that have documents with them that state they were bequeathed to someone by Prince Su Qinwang who lived from 1866 to 1922. There's also a larger document that describes the six scoops. And one of the scoops is dated 1874... which would mean the "gifting" was some time after that.

Also, with the one scoop, the text seems to indicate a scholar/artist teaching perhaps (I might be forcing that based on the image of the people). And, could it be signed by an artist Huang?

Let me know if I'm off on this. I'm going to pursue the tea scoop versus wrist rest at the local Asian art museum here in DC. Unless there are other readings that would work, I would think the labeling of chagou by Su would obviously be what to go with. I'm wondering if a lot of the "wrist rests" I ran across in my research are actually mislabeled scoops. I'll let you know what I find out.

What might shed some light is if any of the descriptions in the listing in the longer document reinforce the scoop concept.

I appreciate everyone's help (and Thanks to Roddy too... admin is a thankless job and this is a great resource). I'm hoping to continue to pick brains, but I have fun with research. Is there a site I can go to that helps with deciphering the strokes of letters? I mean one for novices. The MDBG dictionary is really useful. I can work with that if I can get from written versions to digital equivalents.

Oh... and there was a scholar's stone (three actually) and an ink stone. If anyone spots a mention of those let me know. But I'm assuming all the paper just deals with the scoops.

I have no translation skills... but I owe you guys a beer at least if you ever are in the DC area.

later,

jack

[jbradfor]

Is there a site I can go to that helps with deciphering the strokes of letters?

nciku lets you enter a character by drawing, if that's what you mean.

[889]

There are several 茶合 being offered on www.taobao.com (China's ebay), so the term isn't completely alien to China, though some of the listings do explain that the 茶合 is for use in the tea ceremony. Unfortunately, Taobao doesn't seem to permit linking to the search results.

(If you want to post the scholar stones, please do so.)

[jbradfor]

Just to be complete, here is the text of the description. [sorry that the characters don't look like the sheet, the below are in simplified form, the sheet is traditional.]

一， 山馆秋色

二， 山静日长

三， 山村风味

四， 富贵安乐

五， 鱼虫？倭工王山

六， 秋山孤停

Happy hunting!

[889]

The next-to-last character in No. 5 is 玉 not 王, and the last character in No. 6 is 亭 not 停.