Real Life Chinese

[Chief123]

This is a follow-up to the first part of my story here: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/24260-20-year-absence-and-now-i-need-it-now/

I've been in Taiwan for 4 1/2 months now. While I have the basics of speaking and listening down pat, sometimes daily life is overwhelming. I'm not even sure where to begin really to improve my Chinese. It has improved by leaps and bounds since I've been here but the more I learn the more I realize I have no clue about.

But my biggest problem is that there is so much. And so much that I've never seen in any textbook. Things like (just a small sample):

• Telling the stepson to put the seat down when he's finished and to flush the toilet
  
• Talking about Superman or Dora the Explorer with children
  
• Opening and maintaining a bank account or talking about health insurance or which kind of life insurance we should buy
  
• Sex (thank goodness all the parts and methods are universal)
  
• Differentiating between things that I'm not even 100% sure about in English - for example the difference between a carving and paring knife or grilling versus sauteeing
  
• Explaining English grammar, American history/geography, etc.
  
• Helping the wife wash clothes, fix the cabinet, change the oil in the scooter, reformat/fix her PC, etc.
  

I live in an area where there aren't any Chinese classes available. I have tried studying with Anki, online resources, a couple beginner's dictionaries, reading some things with BoPoMoFo, listening to some podcasts, etc. I don't have any textbooks here. Luckily my wife would rather me speak Chinese - she really has no interest in learning English except for what she needs to know to relate to my family and right now that's not a priority.

The thing is I get so caught up in the needs of the moment - like what I need to say to the doctor this afternoon or how to handle a problem - that "formal" study of any kind goes out the window. For example if my goal is 10 new "words" a day, sometimes I need 22 words I don't know today and those 22 are different than the 10 that I had planned to study. So I'm making lists of the 22 and the 10 are neglected. But tomorrow there's another 13 and the next day 2 more. And because in real life the situations don't stop and wait for you to study I feel like I never get ahead.

It's not all gloom and doom. I'm in this situation by choice and am very happy. But my lack in Chinese is hurting me I feel. I'm not your typical English teacher type or Chinese student that comes for 3-6 months and leaves or even an employee or missionary here temporarily. This is my life and my future. We will probably be in Taiwan for several years - maybe forever. I have 3 stepchildren. I have bills to pay and cabinets to fix and real life I have to learn to deal with in Chinese.

While I understand you don't get fluent overnight and it takes a lot of dedicated effort to fill those gaps, I'm afraid if I don't quickly get a handle on this real life Chinese and figure out a way to fill these gaps in the quickest and most efficient way possible, that things may not be so happy in the future.

Any advice please?

[aristotle1990]

I had the same problem for a while in China, and while I'm certainly no master of Chinese at present, I have gotten much better at working with situations that only come up from time to time. The key is to prepare (有备无患) -- if you know you're going to be doing something you've never encountered before, memorize a dozen or so words and phrases (find 'em with this, this, and this) applicable to the situation with Anki beforehand. When you use these words and phrases in real life, you'll get a handle on them, and after a year of doing this repeatedly, your abilities will have increased dramatically.

[Meng Lelan]

The Chinese language is not learned in one day. Maybe 40 years.

[Guest realmayo]

I just have a word of advice about vocabularly & using Anki or other SRS: for me, especially when learning reasonably large amounts of vocab, I find it important to learn the words before actually putting them into my main Anki deck. For me, SRS works as a way to not forget stuff, so I make sure I've studied the vocab and can remember it and use it before putting it into Anki.

However I know others who have no problem just shoving new words into Anki, including the guy who wrote the programme.

[Daan]

In my opinion, real life situations are the best learning opportunities you could wish for. Carry a notebook with you at all times and write down a few words or patterns after every conversation when you feel that's necessary. You can also use your notebook to write down words you think you may need in a conversation, for example when you are going to see a doctor: just look up the relevant words in advance, jot them down and take the notebook with you. You do not need to be learning names of diseases by heart. If they're important enough, you'll learn such vocabulary items naturally. If not, then you have better things to do.

Also, don't worry about words you can't distinguish between in English either. Chances are they were never very important to you; should they prove to be more important in your Taiwanese life, then you can learn the relevant Mandarin words. Whether you'd want to learn them in English as well is a different question altogether. There's always new words to learn, even when it comes to your native language. Rare is the day that I don't learn a new Dutch word. That's only natural and I would suggest you embrace this wonderful thing about languages...you're never done.

Talk about this with your partner as well. Make sure she understands you recognise your Mandarin still has a long way to go, that it is sometimes difficult for you to express yourself properly in Mandarin, and that you are working hard to improve, but that you can't learn Mandarin overnight. If you can keep her and the stepchildren's support, you'll find them far more willing to put up with your - for the moment - insufficient language skills.

Good luck!

[renzhe]

I think that you should concentrate on situation-specific vocabulary as you encounter it. Carry a notebook with you, like Daan says, and jot down everything that seems important. Throw it into Anki and work from there. Also, the part about looking up relevant words in advance is great -- I found that it really helps the conversation, and helps remember. Many things will come with more exposure, but some things you will simply have to learn the traditional way. And the situations you describe are great learning opportunities.

It is also very important to remember that Mandarin is not easy. You will need sustained effort over many years to become truly fluent. Remember to keep learning (instead of just laying back and expecting it to come on its own, like many people do after their language reaches a reasonable level), and to be patient. Mandarin will test your patience.

Also, how long have you been studying? 4 1/2 months is not a long time. If you're stuck after 4 1/2 years, you should start worrying. Until then, keep learning regularly and use the immersive environment every day.

[Meng Lelan]

What podcasts are you using? Chinese Pod might be better for your real life situation because they have real life dialogues and vocabulary in there. Everything from vacumm cleaners to turning up the room temperature....

[Chief123]

To answer your questions:

I don't currently carry a notebook but will start ASAP. I already try to prepare in advance as much as possible but until you actually are faced with it, many times you don't know what to prepare for.

I've been listening when I can to ChineseLearnOnline.com - haven't looked at ChinesePod in awhile. But may go back.

I searched the forum and couldn't really come up with a good answer. I have the Top/Huayu lists on my computer. Two questions:

1. Is a systematic study of those words a good way to get from okay to good - to fill my gaps?

2. Are those really the most important 1500/5000/8000 words? The reason I ask is that there are lots I hear everyday that are not on the list and there are not many practical or situational words used in everyday life (situations as I mentioned in my first post) and lots I've never heard (or don't think I have but they may have been some I didn't understand) even on the 5000 list.

Thanks again for all your help.

[renzhe]

1. Is a systematic study of those words a good way to get from okay to good - to fill my gaps?

Yes and no. Just memorising vocab alone will not accomplish much, but at the same time, no course or textbook on this planet will give you enough vocabulary on its own. Or even the necessary minimum.

Learning things like the HSK/TOP vocabulary is a good supplementary practice which I personally found extremely useful for pushing past the eternal beginner stage and tackling real materials. If your grammar and pronunciation are already good, then vocabulary should be your number one priority, IMHO. Coupled with plenty of listening and reading in order to condition your brain to recognise them quickly in context.

2. Are those really the most important 1500/5000/8000 words?

There is no such thing as the most important X words. It's always some sort of statistical selection from a large number of sources.

Generally, if you really want to be comfortable with Chinese eventual, you'll need over 10,000 vocabulary items, and they will include most of the vocab listed in the HSK/TOP lists. The rest (which one is more or less important to you personally) is basically details. If something appears unimportant, leave it for later, and if you find something that's not in the list that you consider important, add it. It's just a guideline for test takers, after all.

[Chief123]

Thanks for the reply.

Learning things like the HSK/TOP vocabulary is a good supplementary practice which I personally found extremely useful for pushing past the eternal beginner stage and tackling real materials

If the HSK/Top vocabulary lists are "supplementary", what's the most important primary practice?

[gato]

I don't have any textbooks here.

There's your problem. You need to get a textbook asap.

[renzhe]

what's the most important primary practice?

The most important form of practice is reading native material, listening to native material, and conversing with native speakers.

The most important form or learning is following a textbook and having a good grammar book for explanations.