What does 着 mean?

[Brandon263]

Can someone please explain how, when and with which verbs 着 (zháo) is used as a result complement?

Our teacher told us that you use it to indicate (proper?) completion of action (e.g. 睡着-fall into a deep sleep (?), 找着-找到, 买着-买到，etc).

She says it can only be used with a few verbs, however, and DOES NOT necessarily mean that the action has been 满意地 completed.

Also, she says it is different from the way 好 is used a a result complement.

I'm confused.

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

[edelweis]

The way I understand it, 好 means the action is successfully completed but does not indicate whether it was difficult or not to do it.

But 着 indicates something was/could be achieved or reached, meaning success was not at first certain and probably it required some effort, luck or bad luck, special circumstances, etc. to happen.

just my 2ct, I hope more advanced learners can add their input.

[Shi Tong]

I agree with Edel,

Strangely enough I always got the feeling that to 着 something was a much more difficult achevement than just to finish it with a 好， 到， 完, because I previously couldn't write Chinese, I thought the word 着 was the same as 找, which in my mind meant that it was something that required some finding or reaching, so I filed that in that part of my brain and there it has remained.

However, I'd be happy to be corrected ;)

[creamyhorror]

好 implies successful completion of an intended action, often in preparation for something. 买好了，做好了，准备好了。

着 seems to refer to arriving at a state (hence similar to 到). 睡着 (to reach the state of sleep), 用得着 (to be able to reach use[/usability]), 够不着 (to be unable to reach sufficiency). 睡不着觉 (to attempt but not reach the state of sleep). (Incidentally, in Japanese 着 still has "arrive" as a major meaning, in words like 到着 and 着岸. It's no doubt related to the meaning "touch".) My impression is that the use of 着 is mostly limited to a few verbs and set phrases.

[Brandon263]

Thanks creamyhorror!!! Your explanation sounds like what my teacher was saying, though your explanation is much clearer. Do you know which verbs/phrases you can use 着 with?

[creamyhorror]

No problem. 'Fraid I can't really list the verbs and phrases for you, because I can't really think of many myself. Maybe a native speaker will help out.

You can try doing a search with a Chinese dictionary application for words that end with 着. I use a program called Pablo, which searches CC-CEDICT. It's not comprehensive, but it's a start. Or you can use an iPhone app like iCED that searches CC-CEDICT.

[edelweis]

*着 search in MDBG (I removed the zhe, ​zhuó, zhāo words).

BTW it would not hurt anything to thank everybody who replied even if you only give points to the most useful reply.

着 zháo​ to touch / to come in contact with / to feel / to be affected by / to catch fire / to fall asleep / to burn 著

不着 bù​zháo​ no need / need not 不著

睡着 shuì​zháo​ asleep 睡著

找不着 zhǎo​bu​zháo​ to be unable to find 找不著

用不着 yòng​bu​zháo​ not need / have no use for 用不著

得着 dé​zháo​ to obtain 得著

摸不着 mō​bu​zháo​ unable to clearly understand (a situation etc) 摸不著

找着 zhǎo​zháo​ to find 找著

用得着 yòng​de​zháo​ to be able to use / useable / to have a use for sth 用得著

管不着 guǎn​bu​zháo​ to have no right or ability to interfere in sth / it's none of your business! 管不著

歪打正着 wāi​dǎ​zhèng​zháo​ to succeed by a lucky stroke 歪打正著

犯不着 fàn​bu​zháo​ not worthwhile 犯不著

够不着 gòu​bu​zháo​ to be unable to reach 夠不著

犯得着 fàn​de​zháo​ worthwhile (often in rhetorical questions, implying not worthwhile) / also written 犯得上 犯得著

够得着 gòu​de​zháo​ to reach / to be up to 夠得著

数不着 shǔ​bù​zháo​ does not count / is not important 數不著

引着 yǐn​zháo​ to ignite / to kindle

[Brandon263]

*着 search in MDBG (I removed the zhe, ​zhuó, zhāo words).

BTW it would not hurt anything to thank everybody who replied even if you only give points to the most useful reply.

着 zháo​ to touch / to come in contact with / to feel / to be affected by / to catch fire / to fall asleep / to burn 著

不着 bù​zháo​ no need / need not 不著

睡着 shuì​zháo​ asleep 睡著

找不着 zhǎo​bu​zháo​ to be unable to find 找不著

用不着 yòng​bu​zháo​ not need / have no use for 用不著

得着 dé​zháo​ to obtain 得著

摸不着 mō​bu​zháo​ unable to clearly understand (a situation etc) 摸不著

找着 zhǎo​zháo​ to find 找著

用得着 yòng​de​zháo​ to be able to use / useable / to have a use for sth 用得著

管不着 guǎn​bu​zháo​ to have no right or ability to interfere in sth / it's none of your business! 管不著

歪打正着 wāi​dǎ​zhèng​zháo​ to succeed by a lucky stroke 歪打正著

犯不着 fàn​bu​zháo​ not worthwhile 犯不著

够不着 gòu​bu​zháo​ to be unable to reach 夠不著

犯得着 fàn​de​zháo​ worthwhile (often in rhetorical questions, implying not worthwhile) / also written 犯得上 犯得著

够得着 gòu​de​zháo​ to reach / to be up to 夠得著

数不着 shǔ​bù​zháo​ does not count / is not important 數不著

引着 yǐn​zháo​ to ignite / to kindle

Thanks for your helpful post edelweis.　

I didn't mean to disregard your previous post, I just got excited after I saw that creamyhorror's reply was seemed similar to what my teacher was saying.

[edelweis]

Actually this 着 thing is interesting to me because I often hesitate between the zhe and zháo​ readings of 着.

I think the following are read zháo​ and indicate a less than satisfactory actual or potential outcome:

我的膝盖碰着了墙。 (my kneed bumped into the wall )

公共汽车差一点没撞着我，因为我跳到一边去了。(The bus narrowly missed me because I jumped to one side. )

These are why 着 zháo​ is associated to luck / lack of luck in my mind.

[lockdoc]

As I have learned, there are at least 3 different structures where u put 着 directly behind the verb and it is not zhao, it is "zhe",

so how do you guys know how to differentiate between zhao and zhe?

Edit: here my 着 example sentence (all is zhe)

昨天我们正在上着课,一(条穿着红衣服的)狗(叫着)跑进了教师。

red （正）在。。。着(zhe) structure

green to express a state (he is wearing)

blue Verb1 着 Verb2-struct - doing 1 thing while doing another thing at the same time

[creamyhorror]

how do you guys know how to differentiate between zhao and zhe?

In writing, you just read it and conclude from context which it should be. No joke. Generally zhao only fits after certain verbs, which you recognize after repeated exposure.

[Shi Tong]

Isn't the zhe sound more often said in instance like this: 看着， 等着， 站着- so almost.. kind of fixed action things- meaning "watch, wait, stand", and almost asking to hold that action? I think I've heard all of these, and would use them myself.

I MIGHT be totally wrong, but that's what instantly came to mind.

[creamyhorror]

着 [zhe] goes for ongoing actions in general, even the dynamic ones - 跑着，开着车，玩着. (For expressing "holding still", there's also 住： 站住，黏住，停住。)

zhao2 has a different meaning from zhe, of course, which is why I said you "conclude from context which it should be."

[EDIT] Sorry, really bad typo there as jbradfor said - it should be zhe5 and not zhu4. Actually I was going to type zhe4 because we don't really use qingsheng in Singapore.

[edelweis]

zhu4 ? :blink:

[jbradfor]

著 can also be pronounced zhu4, meaning "to make known / to show / to prove / to write / book / outstanding". However, in this context, yes, creamyhorror mis-typed and meant zhe5.

Interestingly enough, according to MDBG, the zhu4 pronunciation / meaning is the only one of the five (!!!) pronunciations of 著 for which the simplified form of 著 is 著 (i.e. unchanged), not 着. Is this an error?

[edelweis]

thanks for the clarification.

I think there was some discussion before about 著 and 着 being not entirely interchangeable i.e. depending on the context one is appropriate and the other is not.

[jbradfor]

Sorry, really bad typo there as jbradfor said - it should be zhe5 and not zhu4. Actually I was going to type zhe4 because we don't really use qingsheng in Singapore.

edelweis said it first :o

Quibble time: does zhe5 vs zhe4 count as qingsheng? I was under the impression that qingsheng only refers to characters that normally have a tone, but drop the tone as part of a word? In Singapore, do you have tones for 吗 and 吧, for example?

[lockdoc]

As for my understanding of this thread zhao2 compliments certain Verbs in order to show "achievement"

Looking at the examples of Brandon263 for me it seems that zhao2 is mostly used in those 3-char combinations like a不b or a得b

...

犯不着 fàn​bu​zháo​ not worthwhile 犯不著

够不着 gòu​bu​zháo​ to be unable to reach 夠不著

犯得着 fàn​de​zháo​ worthwhile (often in rhetorical questions, implying not worthwhile) / also written 犯得上 犯得著

够得着 gòu​de​zháo​ to reach / to be up to 夠得著

...

@Brandon263:

Why do u always use the same sentence with 著?

zhe also (for my understanding) seems to be only for certain verbs (Verbs of state) like "to wear (clothes)" cannot figure out any other examples.

So with all this in mind for myself there might be a small chance to figure out by looking at a text how to pronounce it, but if i try to make a sentence (except the a不b or 我穿着黄衣服 and for the Verb者Verb) I will be lost.

So any one please can u recommend me some texts to read.

[creamyhorror]

edelweis said it first :o

You said it was a typo, so I was just confirming that.

Quibble time: does zhe5 vs zhe4 count as qingsheng? I was under the impression that qingsheng only refers to characters that normally have a tone, but drop the tone as part of a word?

At first I didn't quite understand you, but after checking the dictionary, I guess you mean that zhe4 isn't even the proper tone for 着 at all. Well, zhe4 is how I think we pronounce it, but I'll keep a listen-out. [edit: I think the zhe tone is too brief to tell in most cases]

In Singapore, do you have tones for 吗 and 吧, for example?

Yes for 吗 - ma1. Not sure about 吧, I think it might not have a tone. We say 东西 dong1xi1, 小姐 xiao2jie3, 关系 guan1xi1, 衣服 yi1fu2, etc. If you use qingsheng people will ask if you're from China.

video of singapore actors chatting, sort of representative.

[Shi Tong]

Same in Taiwan Creamy.. they also have 东西 dong1xi1, 小姐 xiao2jie3, 关系 guan1xi1, 衣服 yi1fu2.

Out of curiosity, and kind of besides the point I know, but do they qingsheng-ise words like 爸爸 (still pronounced as ba4ba5 in Taiwan) Also, same with 妹妹 (still pronounced as jie3jie5). Of course in Taiwan mother is still ma1ma1. Tones for 嗎 and 吧 in Taiwan take on a slightly 1st tone type sound.

On the subject of the zhe5 and zhao2, the way I hear zhe5 is as a light tone.