Taiwan accent

[preroll]

Is it just me or am I hearing a different way of pronouncing 'yes' and 'four'

Chinese Mandarin audio book says 'shr'(shuh) and 'si'(suh)

Taiwan (mandarin) newscaster (TVBS) says (shee) and (see).

Basically the 'uh' sound seems to be pronounced as 'ee' in Taiwan ?

[calibre2001]

It's common to hear the 'h' dropped out sometimes.

Some say it's a southern mandarin feature due to influence from their native language.

Even without the 'h', the tone is usually the same. That's why it can still be 'yes' or 'four'.

Natives listen for the tones more rather than phoentical pronunciation.

On your newscaster I'm still not sure why you're getting across.

[Hofmann]

Maybe they're not speaking Mandarin.

[renzhe]

This surprises me, as the newscasters in Taiwan tend to have very proper pronunciation, at least from what I've seen.

[rezaf]

what is "uh" and what is "ee" in pinyin?

[Lu]

Is it just me or am I hearing a different way of pronouncing 'yes' and 'four'

Chinese Mandarin audio book says 'shr'(shuh) and 'si'(suh)

Taiwan (mandarin) newscaster (TVBS) says (shee) and (see).

Basically the 'uh' sound seems to be pronounced as 'ee' in Taiwan?

Both Taiwan and the mainland should say shi and si (especially when it's newscasters talking), with the mainland version having a bit more tongue-roll. Making shi sound like xi is wrong in Taiwan as it is everywhere.

[preroll]

It's not really the initials I'm talking about but the finals.

For example I'm used to four being 'suh' as in 'o'ther.

But I'm hearing the Taiwan mandarin newscaster say 'see' as in 'seen'.

In pinyin, 'shi' and 'xi' are both different in initials and finals, especially the final,

which is I think they are grouped differently in the pinyin table, they both use 'i' but

the 'i' sounds very different.

[renzhe]

Do you have an example of this pronunciation?

If it really sounds like you describe it, then it's a newscaster with a strong accent. Or not speaking Mandarin. The character 四 is pronounced exactly the same way across the straight, when it comes to standard Mandarin pronunciation.

[creamyhorror]

For example I'm used to four being 'suh' as in 'o'ther.

Those sounds are actually quite different.

But I'm hearing the Taiwan mandarin newscaster say 'see' as in 'seen'.

No way...either your ears are mishearing or it's not Mandarin.

[sleepy eyes]

As the "o" in "other? Uh?!

[Shi Tong]

I've never in my life heard of anyone saying something like you describe like "suh" for "four" in Mandarin Chinese. The description of "see" in "seen" is much closer to "Si4" or "Four" in Mandarin Chinese than what you're describing (some kind of "suh" sound).. so.. dont know where you're getting it from old chap, but doesn't sound right to me.

[adrianlondon]

I've never in my life heard of anyone saying something like you describe like "suh" for "four" in Mandarin Chinese.

Apart from almost everyone. "suh" is a way of writing "si" for those who don't know pinyin, as "si" would typically be pronounced "sea" by them.

[Shi Tong]

Apart from almost everyone. "suh" is a way of writing "si" for those who don't know pinyin, as "si" would typically be pronounced "sea" by them.

I'm confused.

"suh" is a way of writing 四? "si" is typically mispronounced like "sea" by beginners because they're fooled by the way it looks, I agree.

What do you mean by "apart from almost everyone"?, NOBODY says 四 as "suh", the closest I can come with a phontic system is to use ㄙ. Is there some phonetic system out there which uses "suh" for 四?

[renzhe]

You're probably "reading" suh wrong.

What is meant is "s" followed by a schwa, or [sə] in IPA. Which is close to how the pinyin "si" is pronounced.

Pronouncing pinyin "si" as "see" or "sea" is always incorrect.

[Shi Tong]

Hahaha.. I am reading "suh" wrong then, I thought it was either me going nuts or some phonetic method I was unaware of to express the sound "四"

For example I'm used to four being 'suh' as in 'o'ther.

Doesn't explain this though.... what kind of accent are we talking about the the "o" in "o"ther then?

Why dont you just record the sounds you think are being made, paste them up and we'll all know what's actually going on!

[Hofmann]

Well, I looked at this dictionary, which is of Taiwanese Hokkien, and uses Pe̍h-ōe-jī (POJ). 四 is pronounced sù or sì in POJ, which is [su˨˩] or [ɕu˨˩] or [si˨˩] or [ɕi˨˩] in IPA. [si˨˩] sounds like English "see." If this is what you heard, it's likely they were speaking Hokkien.

[creamyhorror]

Apart from almost everyone. "suh" is a way of writing "si" for those who don't know pinyin, as "si" would typically be pronounced "sea" by them.

Given that that "o" in "other" is pronounced "ah" in many dialects of English, "suh" (according to the original poster) is basically "sah", which I'm sure most would agree does not sound like pinyin "si" at all.

I think the original poster may have poor sound discrimination, because there's no way a Taiwanese Mandarin newscaster would say "sea" for pinyin "si".

[Shi Tong]

Yeah, because according to the OP, it's the o in other we're talking about, which is nothing to do with IPA.

So where does the "o" in "o"ther sound like the suffix to the sound for four in Chinese, or si as in pinyin?

[preroll]

Sorry for confusing people by using english words.

I found this on the wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin)

-i is a buzzed continuation of the consonant following z-, c-, s-, zh-, ch-, sh- or r-.

(..(for) all other words, -i has the sound of bee..

So to me, the word for 'four' I'm used to - doesn't sound like 'bee' but rather like the IPA (ʌ).

(I should have used 'udder' instead of 'other' (although in IPA they both use 'ʌ')).

Well, I'm quite happy with the answer from Hofmann, thanks man. And thanks to all your replies too.

[ts0523]

The way we Taiwanese speak Mandarin is getting relaxing and lazy. Therefore, it's probably possible you heard 四 from OP instead of the correct sound of 是.