Opinion on this article on Chinese?

[song]

I really honestly want to take Chinese and I'm eager to see the country for myself. But my friend is constantly warning me that its a masochist's language and gave me this entertaining article to read:

Why Chinese is So Damned Hard

I have to admit, it scares me a little, but darn it, I still want to see it for myself.

For starters, I'm Korean American, English being my native language, and I can read, write, speak, and understand Korean at an elementary level. I understand the three alphabet system, combination of letters, and how a single word can have many different meanings when you say it in a different tone, ex. "neh". I'm currently mastering Korean so I can know it like a native, and brushing up on Spanish in my spare time.

So your opinion on this article? Despite what it says, I'm a bit shaken but I think I can do it.

[Chinadoog]

i read a bit of the article and it seems ok.

but really learning chinese isn't that hard. even after a year of studying and living in china i was able to hold a decent conversation. i've heard some people on this site say that it's easy to get to the intermediate level (which is where i am) but really tough to get to the advanced/near fluent level.

if you want to become fluent, then yeah it's going to be insanely difficult, but to reach a basic conversational level shouldn't be too hard.

and the author of that article talks a lot about characters, but imo learning new characters is one of the easier parts of studying chinese. if you study every day, learning 4,000 characters is doable in less than 2 years

[creamyhorror]

I read that rather famous article a long time ago, but my impression from then is that it's mostly true. Chinese is objectively significantly harder or more time-consuming for English speakers to learn than Romance or Germanic languages -- no surprises there. The need to remember characters adds an additional layer of memory work to the language.

On the other hand, technology has rendered it less important to be able to handwrite characters, so the task becomes somewhat lessened to the recognition and reading of characters. It'll still take you a long time, though.

[knadolny]

Yeah I have read that article before. When I see someone saying something is so difficult and you should never pursue something, then I usually take that person with a grain of salt. Yes, Chinese is hard, but I have been studying part-time for the past eight years and I would say my Chinese is pretty good. (It was my minor in college)

I have picked up Japanese within the past year rather quickly because of the Chinese background. So of course learning Spanish after English is many times easier than learning Chinese, but learning Japanese after Chinese is easier as well.

Korean and Chinese share a lot of vocabulary as well. A lot of Koreans would disagree with me on that, but I have found many words that sound very similar. I am sure you can use your background to your advantage.

Give it a shot.

[renzhe]

We've discussed this before:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/21012-is-chinese-more-difficult-than-european-languages/

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/18589-is-this-true/

In short: it will depend on your background and study habits. You'll have to think about why you're learning the language, and how much effort you want to put into it. It's work, but the rewards are great. And learning Chinese characters can be a great help for getting a deeper understanding of Korean too.

[sthubbar]

Song,

This article is great. I especially like the part where he give the personals ad example.

He is specifically talking about the characters and it is the hardest written language in the world. Some people like it, though some people like doing graduate level mathematics, just not very many.

The good news is that it is possible to learn to speak and understand quite fluently without being able to read or write very much.

As other's have said, if you are interested in learning, go ahead and learn and make it as fun as possible.

You can also check out AllJapaneseAllTheTime.com for some another perspective.

[aristotle1990]

You can also check out AllJapaneseAllTheTime.com for some another perspective.

Especially this article.

[Glenn]

Well, that was certainly entertaining! It's an interesting take on history for sure.

[wushijiao]

Yes, it is a classic article and is basically true.

I'd just add two important points:

1) If you give yourself quite a few years to learn Chinese, and if you work hard, it is certainly doable

2) Moser wrote that article quite a few years ago, and since then, I would argue that it has become much easier to be an efficient Chinese learner. First, there has been an explosion in the quality of textbooks teaching Chinese in the last ten years or so. Second, there are a wide range of podcasts that give you level-appropriate input (and quality input is a crucial key to getting good). Third, there are electronic dictionaries, PDA devices, flashcards...etc that make the process easier. Finally, you can always discuss learning issues on the Forums and you'll hopefully get pointed in the right direction. You can also take advantage of things like the Great First Episode Project, where you can get core vocabulary and plot outlines to TV series and watch them on the Internet for free.

In more detail, I'd say that the development mentioned above have made the following points less "hard":

1. Because the writing system is ridiculous.

2. Because the language doesn't have the common sense to use an alphabet.

5. Because even looking up a word in the dictionary is complicated.

6. Then there's classical Chinese (wenyanwen).

At this point, everyone uses pinyin, thus neutralizing this point:

7. Because there are too many romanization methods and they all suck.

I have argued elsewhere that even for people like me (who were hopeless at tones), you can develo good tones over the years via massive input and other techniques. So the following point shouldn't be seen as too much a barrier:

8. Because tonal languages are weird.

[skylee]

At this point, everyone uses pinyin, thus neutralizing this point:

I suppose your "everyone" does not really include everyone.

[anonymoose]

I suppose your "everyone" does not really include everyone.

Maybe not everyone, but it includes you.

[renzhe]

The good news is that it is possible to learn to speak and understand quite fluently without being able to read or write very much.

If and only if you live in China for a few years and stick to a very basic vocabulary.

[GuoDongXing]

The Defense Language Institute for the US DOD rates Japanese as the hardest language for English speakers to learn. Followed by Korean, then Chinese with Arabic a distant fourth.

[aristotle1990]

No, it rates Korean as the most difficult language to learn, followed by Japanese, followed by Chinese, followed by Arabic. See this PDF (it's on page 7).

[knadolny]

followed by Japanese, followed by Chinese, followed by Arabic

All those languages are in Category IV and listed in alphabetical order. I read somewhere that they considered Japanese the hardest language for Americans to learn as well.

The Defense Language Institute for the US DOD rates Japanese as the hardest language for English speakers to learn.

Do you have a source?

[hackinger]

Hi,

Wikipedia says Sentinelese is the hardest. ;-)

It does give a citation for the claim that Japanese is harder than Chinese for English speakers, but the reference is not very explicit either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_difficult_language_to_learn

Cheers

hackinger