place names in HSK vocab?

[magreen]

Aside from 中国， 北京 (and perhaps a few others), there doesn't seem to be any place names in HSK vocab?

I want to make sure my vocab lists are accurate, so can somebody please confirm this?

Any idea why? Some place names seem fundamental to basic communication?

Is there anything else 'fundamental' left out of the HSK lists?

[abcdefg]

Some place names seem fundamental to basic communication?

You're absolutely right. They are fundamental and should be learned regardless of whether they show up on HSK lists or not.

Have a look at post number 20 on this page for a slick place name learning tool.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/28369-remembering-all-of-chinas-provincesareas-and-capitals/page__p__228141__hl__place+names__fromsearch__1#comment-228141

[magreen]

Thanks abcdefg.

So I take that as a confirmation.

Doesn't even have Shanghai!

[JenniferW]

But a lot of place names use characters you meet in other contexts - so in real life I often recognise enough of the written form of a place name (for example looking at the route at a bus stop in Beijing) to be able to work out the place being referred to. For local place names, this sort of thing is only relevant if you live in the area - and I think you do teach yourself quite quickly what you need to know to navigate your way around.

For the big cities - provincial capitals, etc - some of them include characters you learn for their ordinary usage, too.

So, although there may not be a specific list of Chinese place names in the HSK character lists, I don't think this is completely not covered.

What do you think should be included? A list of countries around the world? A list of large cities in the PRC?

[magreen]

车 isn't even in the list. Nor is 车子. What gives?

Agreed. Characters in Chinese places are relatively common. Not necessary the case with Western names. I can kind of see now how including place names could get out of hand.

[JenniferW]

车 / chē is in the HSK vocabulary lists (I've done level 3 and it was in that one) in 公共汽车 / gōnggòngqìchē.

[ChouDoufu]

Just a thought, but perhaps place names aren't prominent in the new HSK vocabulary lists because they are "filler material". If a reading passage mentioned a place that you didn't know, it's more important to recognize that the word is a place then it is to know which place it is. The same thing goes for people.

The HSK vocabulary is a good list because it tells you the HSK (and most Chinese teachers) think you should know. But it's not comprehensive.

[magreen]

I guess this is debatable, but to me, 车 really should be a separate word.

In retrospect (once you've been studying Chinese for a while), it's easy to see the component characters of complex words (N-grams) and understand their individual meaning. But, for new learners, it's not easy to make the distinction that the 车 of 公共汽车 means 'car'.

As I go through the HSK lists, I see a lot of basic words are omitted. Presumably because they're included as components in N-grams.

My feeling is that HSK is not meant to be a syllabus. It assumes that you're getting new Chinese content from other sources (ie. a formal course, self-study, living in China, Chinese media, etc.). It only gauges your level by testing your knowledge of a 'subset' of what you really should know. After all, that's what tests do, right? They never cover all the content.

More rambling... So, via posts I've read here, I sense that people really want HSK lists to be the de-facto learning tool. "If I conquer the HSK lists, I'll be fluent in Chinese". I really don't think that's the case. HSK is not the be-all end-all. It's a test.

[JenniferW]

You are right - the HSK character lists are not intended to be a syllabus! You can't learn grammar from lists of characters. You can't develop listening skills from lists of characters. And so on.

A good course book is based on a recognised syllabus, and that will give you systematic input which introduces all the characters in context, even if you're working on your own and without a teacher.

As regards characters which are used in multi-syllable words, when I learn new words I also check the meaning of the single characters in a dictionary, and it's a good way to extend your characters knowledge. It may take time, but I think it's always time that pays off.