Racism

[PollyWaffle]

Yesterday I was at the DVD shop, & it was empty except for us. As per usual, we were the topic of conversation when the store attendant says in a bellowing voice to the other, "鬼子来得/的". I repeated what he said & the room instantly went quiet, & I was second guessing what I heard. I decided to buy DVDs elsewhere & when we left the attendant refused to look at me though I was staring at him.

I wasn't angry, racism is everywhere in the world, plus I have often heard people say 日本鬼子. What I take offence to is that they pretend we are idiots & slag us off without even pretending to be discrete. It left a bad taste in my mouth & now I wonder how often the incessant snickering has been a race based slur. If a similar event occurred where I am from, I have no doubt the recipient (especially my chinese friends) would have complained to the offender's boss.

OK, chinese leaners hear/read constantly from textbooks about just how 热情 the chinese population is. I have never convinced of this (people are people), but I have found the chinese that are like this have buckets full & I love them!! The rest just follow entrenched formalities of niceness, which isn't genuine, it is what is expected, culturally speaking.

Oh well, shouldn't whine, it's not as if I have been systematically persecuted.... though I have wondered why foreigners have to pay more in rent in the area I live....

[xuechengfeng]

What do these racial slurs mean?

[Green Pea]

Heck, I've had my Chinese teacher call me this!

I think a lot of so-called racism is actually pure stupidity.

[Quest]

What do these racial slurs mean?

鬼 means someone is not a 人.

So, instead of saying 日本人 or 洋人, they changed 人 to 鬼.

[PollyWaffle]

鬼子 guǐzi n. 〈derog.〉 foreign devil

Heck, I've had my Chinese teacher call me this!

I think a lot of so-called racism is actually pure stupidity.

so did you reply 'shut up slopehead'??????? i think not

[owen]

There can simply be no argument over the presence of racism in China. Compared to western countries it is much more prevalent, whether in benign or malevolent form. Whenever I hear the negation of it by some nationalistic or enamored so and so, it bothers me. The fact is, I think China just has too much collective ignorance about the modern world outside of China. Not that they can be blamed. It's a simple matter of exposure, which is still too meagre, giving way to acceptance.

Please do not read this and confuse ignorance with stupidity. I don't think that Chinese people lack human intelligence compared to westerners. That would of course be preposterous. Though I have met many Chinese that, whether they state it explicitly or not, think that westerner's mental capacity is lacking or at very least different from their's.

But I think things are changing slowly. Nevertheless, when it (racism) rears its head in any form it should be named as such and not brushed aside as a cultural or (ugh) an historical matter

.

To be perfectly honest, before I came to China I never gave much thought to the more subtle complexities of racism. I was insulated from it as part of the overwhelming majority in a small Canadian city. Coming here has made me accutely aware of it. I must admit however, being white I often recieve beneficial treatment. Though that, too, is racism, I can't say I know what real, systematic persecution feels like.

ya, the gouging of foreigners for rent or hotel accomodations is a drag.

[ChouDoufu]

also things like I was with my friends at Simatai (Great Wall) and the guy asked for my ticket but not for theirs (they were Chinese).

I like the way Japanese deal with racial discrimination. First, they barely mention it. Then, they make the word so long that it's effectively useless in a conversation as people haven't heard it before (and you have a heck of a time getting it out).

[Quest]

Though I have met many Chinese that, whether they state it explicitly or not, think that westerner's mental capacity is lacking or at very least different from their's.

language+cultural barrier

[Green Pea]

Please do not read this and confuse ignorance with stupidity. I don't think that Chinese people lack human intelligence compared to westerners. That would of course be preposterous. Though I have met many Chinese that, whether they state it explicitly or not, think that westerner's mental capacity is lacking or at very least different from their's.

I don't confuse ignorance with stupidity. I have no problem with ignorant people. I also don't confuse intelligence with stupidity. In other words, there are a lot of intelligent people who are stupid. There are also many not-so-intelligent people who are quite smart.

Frankly, I like racism and cultures of racism. Racism is basically taking an input and deriving a conclusion without evaluation. Culture is institionalised decision making. For example, see white guy=assume inability to speak Chinese=speak English. Despite evidence to the contrary some continue with this conclusion (white guy doesn't speak English=hear white guy speak Chinese=speak English). I really like this because people become predictable. Predictable people are easily controlled and manipulated.

language+cultural barrier

I agree with Quest. Chinese have a language and cultural barrier in understanding Western culture. I've met many Chinese who totally think they understand Western culture because they see a few Hollywood flicks and meet a few foreigners. Most have no clue.

[TSkillet]

Compared to western countries it is much more prevalent

I'd disagree with this - mainly because there just aren't a lot of non-Chinese in China. If you added up all the minorities and foreigners, I'd bet the percentages are miniscule. While I don't doubt that many/most/an awful lot of Mainland Chinese harbor ignorant ideas and thoughts about foreigners - 99% never get to apply or practice "racisim" because they'll never see or come into contact with someone who is ethnically different.

That's not the case for multi-cultural immigrant societies like Australia, the US ,France or the UK, where one probably sees someone from a different ethnictiy, culture, or religion on a daily basis - and has a lot more opportunity to be racist.

[HashiriKata]

Out of habit, I don't normally participate in controversial discussions but for some unknown reason, the language sections seem to be so quiet in the last few days so here I am with my 2 cents out of considerable experience in living in both the East and the West:

When an Easterner experience "racism", he bows his head and keeps quiet (as nobody will take notice anyway)

When a Westerner experience something similar, he'll make a lot of noise about it (as it simply so unacceptable)

The above attitudes, I think, sum up the reality of racism better than anything else I can say.

[Quest]

反客为主 is considered discourteous in Chinese culture.

[PollyWaffle]

no wonder it took so long to LEGISLATE against racism in western countries... it's a wonder it happened at all with every victim bowing their heads in silence...

[HashiriKata]

My post was intended in the abstract and I can understand your feelings when linked to your (concrete & fresh) situation. I'm sorry if this is the case, PollyWaffle!

Your mention of Legislations has taken me into a very different area (again, in the abstract):

We've got more than a thousand and one legislations regarding every aspects of life but we seem to forget our ingenuity in abusing them. The result is therefore often in favour of those with the means and power to abuse, and not of those in need of protection. Legislations can in some cases be used to make us more un-human, not less. In others, when the power is in excess, we can even disregard legislations altogether (an example of this is our destruction of Iraq in the face of UN's legislations).

[PollyWaffle]

The result is therefore often in favour of those with the means and power to abuse, and not of those in need of protection.

Very very true!!!

Actually, I don't give a @#$% about the comment itself, tho I don't particularly like it, I take racism for granted (If I do have a pet hate, it is the idea that only westerners know how to be racists).

Like I sed in the original post, being taken for an absolute idiot #$%^ed me off, like I am so dumb, I can't understand when I am being spoken about in a very indescrete manner. Why else would any non-chinese willingly live in Tianjin other than to study Mandarin? Plus the shop in question gets loads of foreign students from the nearby uni. Anyway, me thinks this topic is redundant....

[owen]

I don't confuse ignorance with stupidity. I have no problem with ignorant people. I also don't confuse intelligence with stupidity. In other words, there are a lot of intelligent people who are stupid. There are also many not-so-intelligent people who are quite smart.

I don't get it. Could you elaborate.

I'd disagree with this - mainly because there just aren't a lot of non-Chinese in China. If you added up all the minorities and foreigners, I'd bet the percentages are miniscule. While I don't doubt that many/most/an awful lot of Mainland Chinese harbor ignorant ideas and thoughts about foreigners - 99% never get to apply or practice "racisim" because they'll never see or come into contact with someone who is ethnically different.

That's not the case for multi-cultural immigrant societies like Australia, the US ,France or the UK, where one probably sees someone from a different ethnictiy, culture, or religion on a daily basis - and has a lot more opportunity to be racist.

That's very true. And that is no doubt the reason it continues, because it hasn't had the opportunity to be the bane of enough people's existence. Cold comfort for those who it bothers though.

So I guess to bypass your point I would just say that the potential for racism is more prevalent in China.

[geek_frappa]

no wonder it took so long to LEGISLATE against racism in western countries... it's a wonder it happened at all with every victim bowing their heads in silence...

you should read old Chinese language dictionaries and textbooks. you may be shocked. racism in western countries comes from scarcity of resources.

... "he took my job. she's drinking my water. he's using my public funds. he's lowering the standards of education".

... mostly these are political excuses for political gain. oh well...

[PollyWaffle]

you should read old Chinese language dictionaries and textbooks. you may be shocked.

ok, i have looked but i can't find any (i wasn't shocked about this)... can you enlighten me please?

[yonglan]

When an Easterner experience "racism"' date=' he bows his head and keeps quiet (as nobody will take notice anyway)

When a Westerner experience something similar, he'll make a lot of noise about it (as it simply so unacceptable) [/quote']

I disagree. I know a number of foreigners who have been attacked physically (to the point of being bruised in some cases), explicitly for being foreigners in Japan and have heard and read of this sort of thing elsewhere in East Asia. Most of the time foreigners don't even go to the police for this because they believe, rightly in my opinion, that the police will do nothing. I know people who have and the cops don't care.

Meanwhile, I hear phony claims of racism from Asians in the US all the time. A good example, a Taiwanese woman I know came to work in the evening right after having gotten a speeding ticket. She says the cop pulled her over because she's Chinese. Aside from the fact that this woman admitted to me that she was in fact speeding (so, case closed), it was a dark and rainy night. There's no way the cop had any idea who she was until he had already pulled her over.

Sure racism exists everywhere, but it is not even admitted to most of the time in East Asia. In the West (at least in the English speaking countries, I can say) it is a big deal. People lose their jobs over complaints of racism. No English speaker I've ever met denies the existance of racism in their country, even though their countries all allow people from all over the world to live and work there.

you should read old Chinese language dictionaries and textbooks. you may be shocked.

Might you elaborate?

... "he took my job. she's drinking my water. he's using my public funds. he's lowering the standards of education".

These things aren't (necessarily) about racism. Sometimes they're actual facts; sometimes they're fears having nothing to do with race. You can't just call something/someone racist because you disagree with their point of view. You need to show that they are basing their beliefs on race.

The examples you give all have nothing to do with race. For example, when a US citizen who doesn't have health insurance complains about illegal aliens getting free medical care (which they do), that's got nothing to do with race. Same with your other examples.

[owen]

Sure racism exists everywhere, but it is not even admitted to most of the time in East Asia. In the West (at least in the English speaking countries, I can say) it is a big deal. People lose their jobs over complaints of racism. No English speaker I've ever met denies the existance of racism in their country, even though their countries all allow people from all over the world to live and work there.

Testify!!!

I have a very dirty secret.....

I daydream of going back to my country and staring at Chinese people, pointing and laughing with my friends. Yelling garbled neeeeeeeeeee hoowwwwwws at them then again, laughing. Speaking lightning fast english to them and walking away when they can't produce an instant accentless answer. Charging them higher prices than my countrymen. Using them as nothing more than a means to practice my Mandarin (and of course assuming that they all speak it). Having a daughter and forbidding her to marry a 'yellow man'. And, last but not least, telling them that I love them for their tiny eyes.

I know this would solve nothing, but a man can daydream.