Racism

[Jamoldo]

xichng how could your children lose their heritage forever? by marrying outside of China? as for the diversity argument, most people don't intermarry and I think it's going to be quite a long time before the majority of the world's population decides to intermarry, so I dont think cultures will be lost anytime soon, in that respect.

also, i think the terms we use for race are way too broad. being "white" doesnt mean there is a common "white" culture. there are irish, french, spanish, italian, english, german, czech, romanian, russian, etc, all with totally different languages, and traditions, yet they can intermarry? there are even plenty of arabs/israelis that look "white." Ditto for blacks, hispanics, indians, etc.

[xichg]

Jamoldo,

It's very easy to lose the Chinese heritage. Let's say I marry a white girl, and my children will be half chinese/half white. And they will all marry a white girl/boy (it's very possible since this is a white majority country), and their children will be of 1/4 Chinese blood. I am pretty sure they will not look like Chinese, although you may find some little Chinese traces here and there. They don't speak Chinese. They won't embrace Chinese culture since the macro-enviroment of the country is western culture and the micro-enviroment at home is western culture too. They will not think themselves Chinese because it's pretty obvious they don't look Chinese (and they are not). And their Chinese family name means little to them. And when I die, the Chinese culture and heritage die with me. Don't I deserve to be a little bit sad? To be honest, this is not exactly my design for the future.

[Jamoldo]

Xichng,

You are assuming that just because you might marry outside your race that future generations definitely will. While it would be a stronger possibility for your mixed kids to follow in your footsteps of marrying outside of your race, it is not necessarily going to happen..

I hate to break it to you, but plenty of 2nd gen kids are losing their heritage and culture by your definition without marrying/dating other races, but simply by living in a foriegn country. Like I said, I am 2nd generation Indian, and sure I'm very familiar with the culture of my family's part of India, I can speak my language fluently (can't read or write though), but I have a fair share of friends from the same background who can't speak a word of the language (despite their parents being enthusiasts of India, and trynig to bring it upon their kids) and are not as familiar with the culture. There is also a sub culture developing amongst (let's just use my case) 2nd gen Indian kids, that is a mix of Indian and "American" cultures. There are definitely sub cultures of Chinese-Americans, Korean-Americans and others.... The most significant evidence is when the kid starts speaking (not to mention reading and writing) English or whatever the country's language is, better than his/her heritage language (in your case, I'm thinking Mandarin)

There are plenty of people who no longer really identify with their culture or country of origin, yet they still have most of their friends within that ethnic group, marry within that ethnic group, but can't speak the language, and don't carry on many of the traditions. Sure, while in college/university, they might join the Chinese students group or Indian students group or something like that and do some dances/put on some skits, but when you ask them what their origin is, they will say "American" or "British" or "Canadian" or whatever.

[Planeswalker]

Ni Hao!

I seldom stay awake this late and rarely engage in lengthy topics.

My main purpose was to gather some brief information on China and Chinese languages, yet I was triggered to register on this forum immediately because I wanted to ask a few questions.

I won't elaborate on my own views since I'm tired but I will do that as soon as I'm back online.

1) Would your conscious mating attitude shift in case you learned that all genetics you studied at school or university was totally unfounded?

2) What's your position to the statement that the phenotype classifications "Chinese", "South Asian" and "Caucasian" themselves are the result of ancient racial interbreeding (i.e. "being Chinese", "being Caucasian", etc. = mixed)?

3) With culture and identity do you imply only that what preceded you, or what you, too, are doing and can do to represent, foster, develop and improve your culture at whatever possible level?

[Ian_Lee]

I don't believe a Chinese will lose his culture or heritage merely because he marries a non-Chinese.

He will only risk losing it only if he decides to uproot himself and and settle in a predominantly non-Chinese society. Even if his son, grandson, great-grandson,.....marries a Chinese, most likely they will become "bananas". So far I have not seen any 4th generation Chinese American can speak more than a token few Chinese words.

(However, language alone does not represent culture/heritage. In fact, some aspects of Chinese culture are better preserved in overseas Chinese community than in China Mainland itself.)

So what to do if one worries about losing his culture and heritage after he marries a non-Chinese?

Very simple. Bring your spouse back to live in a Chinese-speaking society. Such move will guarantee that in the future, your mixed-blood sons/daughters will most likely marry a Chinese.

[wai ming]

I honestly don't think that one loses one's "culture" by marrying outside one's "race". There are non-Chinese people who know more about the "Chinese culture" and even "Chinese language(s)" than the so-called "pure breed" children of two Chinese parents.

If children lose their parents' culture, it's often because their parents didn't promote the positive aspects of their culture. Isn't it funny how so many XBCs grow up thinking that being Chinese means things like obeying parents no matter what the cost, being perfectionist to the point of being unreasonable, being close-minded etc ...?

(Of course, these are just broad generalisations which don't apply to all XBCs or all their parents, but you'll still find that a lot of XBCs hold these views.)

[Jamoldo]

sometimes kids losing their culture and heritage is simply because they are in a different country and prefer those customs to the ones from their land of origin. Can you totally blame them? they go to school, interact with others, venture into cities and towns, watch tv, this other culture is everywhere and they are bombarded with it.

other times kids will just react negatively to their parents pushing their native culture on them and then totally reject it. I have seen this happen too. One of my very good friends rejects most thigns Indian, but he has only dated Indian girls, can't speak the language, has no desire to go to India and see his extended family there. His parents are cultural buffs, having the Indian tv channel on satellite in their home (in their regional language), with both father and mother having used to be singers and artists and very into their culture.

[Qcash3]

other times kids will just react negatively to their parents pushing their native culture on them and then totally reject it.

I totally agree with that. Most of the kids who I have met who have parents who try to force their native culture on them, just completely stray away from the culture all together. When you live in a western society you want to adapt to the rest of society, especially when you are a kid. I'm not saying that it is right for kids to disown their culture, but most of the time it will happen if placed in a very different society.

[novemberfog]

I resisted this thread as well, but I just have to ask, why do you guys bother feeding xichg with biological debate and trying to reason with him? He has already stated he stands by his beliefs, and he does not want to hear any more "liberal crap". No matter what you tell this guy, he won't think about it fairly or openly as he has made his decision.

Actually, I would say there is nothing wrong with him only wanting to a Chinese. That is fine, as there are many people who only wish to marry certain types of people: Catholic only wants to marry a Catholic, Sunni Muslim to a Sunni Muslim, Italian Man to an Italian Woman. That is fair as both parties agree. As long as these people don't try to pass laws that prevent people the freedom to marry outside of their "group", I would say that things are okay.

Anyway, I was fine with what he said up until xichg said:

If any of my friends marries a white, I will stop being friends with him/her.

This is where he goes overboard. He asks others to respect his decision and belief that he will only marry with a Chinese, yet he will openly and willingly not respect and appreciate his friend's decision to marry a caucasian.

I think nothing needs to be said as most of xichg's arguments conflict each other.

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The only thing I would ask him is "What is Chinese?" Does he mean only Han Chinese? What about Manchurian, or Uighur, or Tibetan, or one of that many minority groups in the southern parts of China? They are Chinese by nationality, but you could say blood-lines are different. Are they excluded from "Chinese"? Actually I am really curious about his definition of a Chinese. What about the ethnic Chinese who live in Malaysia and Singapore? Many that I have met cannot speak Mandarin or Cantonese, and only use English and Malay or English only. They prefer European culture to Chinese culture, even though both parents are Chinese. Are these youth still Chinese? How about the case of my coworker, as well? His family left North Korea and moved to Harbin, where he was born and grew up. He holds a PRC passport, he speaks Chinese, he identifies with Chinese more than he does with Koreans, but his blood is not Chinese. Whatever the answer is, I am just trying to figure out what is Chinese, because I'll be honest I just don't know. It is not clear to me.

Anyways, moving on. In regards to the PRC and ROC, I think KuifjeenBobbie summarized it nicely:

"What racial problems do you have in China?"

She replied,

"We have no problems with racism. Racism is a problem in foreign countries"

In the PRC, this really does seem to be a dominant way of thinking. It simply stuns me, having met a minority member of China from Yunnan, things are not okay. If you meet liberals from France, the USA, Japan, Malaysia and so on, they will admit there are racial problems, and there is no simple way to solve them. They admit the existance of the problems though. I have yet to ever hear anyone from the PRC admit their country has problems with race, and often say it is a problem of "white people only". But how they love to come to Japan and moan about the discrimination against them. "This is not a problem in China! We do not treat Japanese differently."

[bhchao]

I don't think Chinese is superior to other races or cultures in any way. But it's my culture and it's what defines me and generations before me. And I want this culture to continue with my future children. Of course I am a 'racist' to many since I love my culture and I don't want my culture lost on my children forever and my children lose their Chinese identity forever

And how does one lose this culture? Simply by being mixed blood, or by not speaking the Chinese language? Or does one lose this culture by saying "I am not Chinese", or refusing to watch Chinese movies?

Let me ask you this. Is Bruce Lee Chinese? His mother is half-German, half-Chinese.